*** Opened channel log for #adf at 2018-05-29 7:45:13 PM [19:45] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-hfsa73.cable.rogers.com) has joined #adf [19:45] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [19:45] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Mon Aug 3 8:55 AM [19:45] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ [19:49] *** JamieGoodwin (jamiegoodwi@sorcery-jiudsn.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [19:59] *** Rovena (rovena@sorcery-fmhst6.hnremote.net) has joined #adf [20:00] *** Mode change [+o Rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:01] *** Star (Mibbit@sorcery-j83dm6.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [20:02] Hello Star [20:02] Good evening [20:02] how are you? [20:03] Hot we are having triple digit heat indexes [20:03] *** Fulbert-Avebury (Mibbit@sorcery-411l6g.fios.verizon.net) has joined #adf [20:04] Welcome Fulbert [20:04] ick It's in the 80-90s or so today [20:04] Hello Rovena/ [20:04] hello Fulbert [20:04] Hello Star [20:05] Never used IRC before; always seemed too techy for me [20:05] Glad you tried it. [20:05] :-) [20:06] I got several emails via the adf-dedicants_list yesterday about this, so decided to take a try. I am new here in ADF, just recently having joined [20:07] The biggest compliant we hear is that it is too old school or not phone freindly [20:07] Welcome to ADF Fulbert :) [20:07] Old school it is. Somehow feel I should be doing some sort of nefarious behavior!! [20:07] If you have any questions about ADF, this is a good place to ask them [20:07] Thanks Star and Rovena [20:08] Welll, we have been know to plot taking over the world on occassion [20:08] lol this chat always reminds me of aol chat rooms [20:08] Ahh, Rovena, that clearly means ADF is a mainstream religion then ;-) [20:09] The mainstream religions might disagree with you [20:09] Star, you are showing a certain age. Alas, all I need is the dial-up modem sound and I will really then scream!! [20:09] [Owlhawk] yes we have Pinky! [20:09] Alas, always liked that noise . . . reminds me of so hoping it would connect. [20:10] I remember the days of dial up [20:10] Glad they are gone [20:10] Don't mind showing my age Fulbert I like wisdom over youth [20:10] still waiting for that to show up mind you the wisdom the age is here but still missing the wisdom lol [20:11] Nothing makes me feel old like making references to life gone by when nobody understands the reference. Then I have to pretend I was only studying history . . . [20:11] lol [20:11] So, ADF newbie question . . . it is a little disorienting to see what is there and where to begin. [20:11] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has joined #adf [20:12] Where do you want to begin? [20:12] *** NathanLarge (Mibbit@sorcery-j83dm6.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [20:12] I want to begin where I am and then have a glimpse of some places that path can take me. [20:12] Hello Nathan [20:12] hello all! [20:12] *** DebbrahFoxveil (Mibbit@sorcery-in9k38.ca.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:13] Hello Debbrah [20:13] Hello! [20:13] Hi [20:13] In order to do any of the study programs you have to complete the Dedicant Program. It is our equlivant of high school. [20:14] It must be, Rovena, because I bought the book! [20:14] But there are a lot of SIGs and Kins you can explore without the DP. [20:15] I also bought the ADF Membership Guide and Dangler's The ADF Dedicant Path. I needed something printed and bound, though appreciate the PDFs. [20:15] Cool. We have a lot of people in the chats that have completed the DP that can help you and I am one of the mentors. [20:15] Many people do like the feel of paper in hand. [20:16] I am quickly realizing how tactile I am. I read a lot online and such, but somehow a long book needs to be printed (for me). [20:17] I like the immediate availability of the printed paper than searching on line. [20:18] I am working my way through the Our Own Druidry text, albeit slowly, as I am trying to test in my mind how much resonates with me before I start writing anything. [20:20] Understand that. Remember you can do a lot of rewrites but you submit your DP. [20:21] Yes, like a bunch of essays and responses to questions. [20:22] One tip: Before you start writing anything for the DP, turn off the auto-replace feature. It can easily fill in the wrong word for you. [20:23] Thanks. [20:23] The spell correct will still work but it will allow you to choose the word you meant to use not the one the computer thinks you meant [20:23] *** SeanMcShee (Mibbit@sorcery-a23b64.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) has joined #adf [20:23] It caused me to do a few unnecessary rewrites. [20:23] Hello Sean [20:23] Thanks. Can I ask two newbie questions about my reading thus far? [20:23] Hi Rovena et al [20:24] Hi [20:24] hi sean' [20:24] Go for it [20:24] Ask away--if newbie enough maybe even I can answer :P [20:25] I am about 20 pages +/- into the Our Own Druidry text and have seen "kindred" mentioned many times, though I have not really seen it defined yet. How is it understood? [20:25] In the ADF, there are Three Kindreds. [20:25] THe Nature Spirits, seen and unseen [20:26] THe ancesters of blood, choice, cultural and the land [20:26] THe SHining Ones or the Deities [20:26] They should have defined it right the bat [20:27] The second question - again after only about 20 pages and some reading of things here and there on the website - but so far I am not really clear how ADF sees itself as a path of Druidry vs. just another Pagan path. Again, I am very new here, so may not be asking this in the best way, but other Druid groups have certain similarities... [20:27] I understand it as a catch-all for all the spiritual entities that exist. [20:27] ...though I do not really see any of them yet, vs. more broad notions of modern Paganism. [20:28] I am trying to understand, in that second question, the Druidness of ADF, given the many IE pantheons often have their own adherents and paths that would not really be Druidic in the slightest. [20:29] It redefined druid [20:29] That is my understanding [20:29] Correct Debbrah [20:29] Moving it away from the Celtic centered idea into something broader [20:29] Thanks Rovena. So ADF distinguishes between nature spirits and deities. Does that mean that some may mean that in one way while others may see deities in other ways? [20:29] 'druidry' is one of several interpretations of 'draiocht', for one thing [20:30] Druid may not be the best word to describe our members and many don't call themselves that but it was the best Isaac could come up with [20:31] Yes, they are viewed differently. There are Deities that are involved deeply with Nature. [20:31] which then does start to blur into the generic modern-neopagan community. Intentionally, as an early vision of the role was to provide trained clergy for it (which didn't precisely work out as planned) [20:31] And ADF practice shares (or attempts to share) several elements that were key in historic druidry, such as reciprocality. [20:32] Thanks Rovena. Both responses are helpful in making enough sense of things for now that in continuing my reading I understand a bit more. [20:32] Yes, what Isaac envisioned is different from what we have evolved into. [20:32] Hence 'our own' rather than 'their old' druidry. ;) [20:33] We can't say that Nathan-the reciprocality. We don't know enough to say if that was a druid thing or more of a general human thing pre0industrial [20:33] We have so very little about historical druids [20:34] Each member is allowed to take what ADF offers and shape it as they prefer in their private practice. [20:35] I have a question, who do send our book reviews to? I just finished Celtic Heritage. [20:35] Are there any ADF core beliefs that are central and unifying? Again, newbie alert(!!), as I have not really seen them and have not really met any ADF folks in flesh. [20:36] THe DP must be submitted en mass. As one massive thing at the end of your journey [20:36] OK thanks [20:36] We are orthopaxy rather than orthodroxy [20:36] Correct action is more important than correct belief [20:37] (so we believe :P ) [20:37] Orthopraxy not orthodoxy--In theory you could not believe anything the same as anyone else and if you practiced the same it wouldn't matter [20:37] e have no 'creed' thateveryone must agree on. [20:37] Warning my typing can mess up at times [20:37] except IE polytheism? That one seems to mentioned a lot [20:37] But in practice some practices are hard to work with without certain beliefs [20:38] I understand the IE focus as a choice for practical purposes. [20:38] The only hard rules apply to public ritual that is identified as ADF [20:40] We have Wiccans that belong to ADF because the only group in their area is ADF so they join us for the sense of community [20:40] Eh, I think it fit our understanding of history a couple decades back, but question if it really works given our more nuanced understanding today of how culture spreads. [20:40] I got go now. Thanks [20:40] *** SeanMcShee (Mibbit@sorcery-a23b64.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:41] bye! [20:41] History is highly debatable. [20:41] Scholars often don't interpret things the same way. [20:42] We've in general moved away from monolithic understandings of cultures to more composite ones, though. [20:43] Interesting. Personally, I am not really interested in following how people did things long ago, in part because most cultures did not keep exact records, and partly because I live now and not then. [20:43] More complexity [20:44] Well, where it affects ADF is in trying to define what counts as IE [20:44] I like seeing how ideas develop, though even then that is not entirely precise. Much more interested in finding a path that works for me and speaks to my needs, wants, and passions now. [20:44] It's worth knowing what was done in the past, if only to avoid mistakes and not work as hard re-creating the same good ideas. [20:44] the lines have gotten super blurry--most of it is grey zone debateable [20:44] Nicely stated Nathan! [20:44] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has quit IRC [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] [20:44] ADF is defintitely not a reconstructionist faith. [20:45] IT is about taking the best we find in history and creating a working model for today [20:45] But I'm with you in terms of valuing new creations and improved practices. [20:45] I live in liminality anyway, so why not with beliefs, too!! Then again, realistically, if I am going to go through the DP, I want to know what I am getting myself into and have some comfort with much of it. [20:46] That is a reasonable approach, Fulbert [20:47] Thanks. This chat here has been very helpful. [20:48] We try to be. [20:48] BTW, I did not know about this chat here except I got a general email yesterday. Perhaps I missed something else, but otherwise would have still been with questions. [20:48] What is the process or what resources are available for reaching out to ADF folks with questions and such? [20:48] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has joined #adf [20:49] There are the elists that you can sign up for on the website under Forums [20:49] It seems there is not a discussion board with Q&A and discussion, but rather email lists. They are a bit too overwhelming to consider sending newbie questions, so where would I send them? [20:49] There are FAcebook groups. [20:49] The is a Discord group for DP students [20:50] There may be others but these are the ones I know about [20:50] Didn't know that this was a dragon that caused problems and disharmony for the ponies lol [20:51] I think I signed up for email lists, though will see if there is a particular one for questions like this. I stay away from FB for anything religious or spiritual due to their harvesting and selling my personal information. What is Discord? [20:51] Sorry I'm a my little pony fan and it is a character there so I was being silly [20:52] It is a new platform that was originally set up for gamers but is gaining popularity. [20:52] Never been on it myself but I can get you the contact info if you are interested [20:52] Thanks. This chat here is every Tuesday at this time? [20:52] I'm looking into Discord for a community for the Games & Play Special Interest Group, since some members are already aboard for their RP and video game groups [20:53] No problem Star, silly is good sometimes [20:53] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has quit IRC [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] [20:54] :) [20:54] Many thanks for all the help, answers, more questions, challenges, and community. Have a nice evening, everybody (unless you are in a timezone that is not the evening!!). [20:55] Take care and enjoy the journey [20:55] Have a good night Fulbert :) Sorry I couldn't add more since I'm still learning and working my way through the DP myself [20:56] The best for your own journeys, wherever they may take you! [20:56] *** Fulbert-Avebury (Mibbit@sorcery-411l6g.fios.verizon.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:56] Night [20:56] Star, sometimes it helps just to know that you are not the only with questions [20:57] Questions and focus problems do make it harder and it can help you are right [21:02] So I got eaten alive this weekend I'm so welted and red :( [21:02] Ouch--bugs? [21:02] Sorry to hear that. Did you enjoy yourself? [21:03] Mosquitoes I was even wearing 80% deet and they still did that to me. I was only there sunday and it was hit or miss [21:03] in terms of enjoying myself [21:04] That's a shame [21:05] it happens from time to time but there were good times it was a balance [21:05] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has joined #adf [21:06] *** Xarn (idx@sorcery-tnk7d7.mcak.cbmk.fb90.2607.IP) has quit IRC [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] [21:07] I was happy to see people I was able to rekindle the friendships that we made last year facebook only does so much. And I was able to be there to see Chelly get ordained so those were good things. [21:07] Ordinations are special and few get to see them [21:08] they sure are special [21:11] I was thinking of doing a survey question on Face book and see how many couples that are ADF end up blending their patrons and matrons together [21:12] I can tell you that my husband and I didn't. [21:12] for example nathan started working with Hermes (So maybe not even just matrons and patrons but those that the other person works with) now I've found myself working with him too lol [21:13] I think of them as being like in-laws [21:14] okay so maybe we're an exception lol I know we both have little side business so maybe that's the situation. Interesting concept in-laws [21:14] No, I think it happens quite often but not all the time [21:15] thanks :) [21:16] By that I mean there is a sort of relationship with them, but you can develop it how you want. But you are stuck with them as long as you share that connection with your partner [21:16] So it makes sense to be friendly [21:16] I got you, good thing we share a matron she actually brought us together [21:20] Back... it doesn't hurt that *I* was petitioning Hermes to help her business, already. [21:20] Now I didn't know that [21:21] I've never really done the matron/patron thing. (My background is more along the noble kindreds line, and ancestral) But my husband, I've had his pop in to check on him and borrow me for a few things. It is interesting. [21:21] sounds interesting [21:21] I have a grove mate that works almost exclusively with the Nature Spirits [21:23] 'Patron' is a convenient shorthand. More like a contractual arrangement for mutual benefit... and 'patronage' makes more sense than 'partnership'. [21:24] I'm on good terms with many, but none I'm particularly close to. A few I've a great deal of fondness for, but not to that patron/matron degree. [21:27] I say that I am a daughter of The Morrigan. [21:28] Lady Freya called to me [21:31] Well I'm going to get going have a nice evening :) [21:31] Night [21:31] *** Star (Mibbit@sorcery-j83dm6.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:38] will drop out now, as well. good night! [21:38] *** NathanLarge (Mibbit@sorcery-j83dm6.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:38] Night [21:39] Darn. I flip to check something out for just a second and I miss people leaving. [21:40] Always the way it happens, isn't it? [21:41] Very true [21:49] I can't get accusom to commercials with long dead celebrities [21:49] That is odd [21:51] I would expect to see more with the audio editing programs they have now [21:51] ugh [21:52] Actually, I am surprised it hasn't happened more often already. [21:53] At least, they are using lines from his earlier commercials for his own products. [22:04] Well, I think I am going to call it a night. See you next time. [22:04] Owlhawk, Say hello to Blondie for me. [22:05] *** Rovena (rovena@sorcery-fmhst6.hnremote.net) has quit IRC [Quit:] [22:07] *** Wolfolatry (Mibbit@sorcery-v99bub.wa.comcast.net) has joined #adf [22:07] distracted for a minute and she leaves-goes to prove the point, I guess [22:07] *** Wolfolatry (Mibbit@sorcery-v99bub.wa.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [23:02] *** DebbrahFoxveil (Mibbit@sorcery-in9k38.ca.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [23:33] *** Beej (beej@sorcery-u6vqco.lsv2.qwest.net) has joined #adf [23:33] Good evening! [23:36] Rats. Everyone already fell asleep. [23:41] *** Beej (beej@sorcery-u6vqco.lsv2.qwest.net) has quit IRC [Quit: Leaving] [01:20] *** JamieGoodwin (jamiegoodwi@sorcery-jiudsn.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] [05:49] *** Server connection lost [05:49] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-hfsa73.cable.rogers.com) has joined #adf [05:49] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [05:49] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Mon Aug 3 8:55 AM [05:49] =NickServ= This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your [05:49] =NickServ= nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, [05:49] =NickServ= please choose a different nick. [05:49] =NickServ= If you do not change within 1 minute, I will change your nick. [05:49] =NickServ= Password accepted - you are now recognized. [05:49] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ [22:02] *** Server connection lost [22:02] =NickServ= This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your [22:02] =NickServ= nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, [22:02] =NickServ= please choose a different nick. [22:02] =NickServ= If you do not change within 1 minute, I will change your nick. [22:02] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-hfsa73.cable.rogers.com) has joined #adf [22:02] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [22:02] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Mon Aug 3 8:55 AM [22:02] =NickServ= Password accepted - you are now recognized. [22:02] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ *** Closed channel log for #adf at 2018-05-31 10:17:56 PM