*** Opened channel log for #ADF at 23/12/2014 7:33:56 PM [19:33] It could be worst They could be yours [19:34] [Owlhawk] true. 2 of them will eventually go home...and i have an Arcadia to drive until they do if i want it... [19:35] not so bad then [19:35] [Owlhawk] meh...I'm allergic to the furballs so, of course, they like me. [19:36] [Owlhawk] the wife wants more kitties.... [19:36] awww [19:37] I have plenty. How does she want them shipped? [19:37] [Owlhawk] happily you won't get them across the border. [19:39] Catapult? [19:39] [Owlhawk] lol [19:39] *groan* [19:44] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:44] So what have you two folks been working on lately? I know it's not yet time for the chat :) [19:45] Hi everybody! <3 [19:45] Hi Bonnie! [19:46] Book report, articles for regional newsletter, protogrove weekly classes [19:46] Hello Bonnie [19:46] Have 1 month to plan the ADF booth for World Religion Day [19:46] Protogrove weekly classes? [19:47] and good luck on the booth!!! [19:47] Our protogrove meets weekly so someone has to plan stuff [19:47] [Owlhawk] bottling 2 beers and starting a pomegranate mead for Wellsprings. [19:48] [Owlhawk] I'll start two more beers this week [19:48] Sounds yummy Owl .. I haven't had a chance to brew in …. about 6 months =/ [19:48] hoping to have some time coming up soon, but busy catching up on my studies [19:49] [Owlhawk] I find it doesn't take all that much time. I start it and then ignore it. [19:49] LOL I still have to watch temps for the mash. Haven't gotten my system down yet [19:49] (also was working 7-day weeks and 12-16hr days so … exhausted) [19:50] [Owlhawk] I use extract kits for the beers. I don't have the money for all that equipment. The meads are from scratch. [19:50] I might try the extract kits more, but I like the complexity of the grain. I use bags though, so no sparging equipment. Just plop the bag in a strainer and let it drain. [19:51] Also, I do 2 - 3 gallon batches [19:51] [Owlhawk] I do 5 gallons. Aside from the occasional test mead, like the pomergranate for the Hellenic symposium at wellsprings [19:51] [Owlhawk] I'm thinking of trying the brrew in the bag method. [19:52] I miss making mead …. I need a good source of honey [19:52] [Owlhawk] I'm lucky that I have several sources near by [19:52] indeed! :) [19:53] [Owlhawk] one of the advantages of living in farm country in southern ontario [19:53] yeah .. not so many bee keepers in the Bay Area, Cali [19:53] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@5a79652d.hsd1.mi.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:54] [Owlhawk] but, then again, not nearly as much snow either. [19:54] Hello Rob [19:54] True ….. it gets "cold" here at 50 F [19:54] One of those rare Tuesdays when I have no Grove event to attend, so here I am. [19:54] Hi Rob! [19:55] Hi! [19:55] [Owlhawk] hello [19:55] [Owlhawk] What's that in C? [19:55] Glad to have you [19:56] Rooooooooooooooobbbbbb. [19:56] 50F = 10C [19:56] *** ErinP (Mibbit@36921445.dsl.282eb7d8.ca.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:56] Owl .. around 10 C [19:56] TY Rob :) [19:56] [Owlhawk] heck, that's shorts weather. [19:56] Exactly equals, iirc [19:56] Hello! [19:57] Hi! [19:57] My husband from Minnesota agrees with you :) [19:57] Hi Erin [19:57] Hi rob, Victoria [19:59] it's raining here. [19:59] No white holiday here [19:59] It's actually not raining here … has been for the last couple weeks [19:59] [Owlhawk] we had rain today as well. weird weather. [19:59] where's "here" Erin? [19:59] Ottawa [19:59] rain & snow huh Owl? [19:59] wow .. I would expect snow this time of year in Ottawa [20:00] weather.com says that we should be dreaming of a rainy Christmas Eve and a Christmas to warm for any snow or ice. [20:01] *** Strongbear (Mibbit@6ca5ecbd.sub-70-196-193.de4c84d2.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:01] [Owlhawk] There's snow in my backyard. [20:01] where are you Rob! [20:01] ? [20:01] heh .. I think I've had a white Christmas once, but then West Indies -> Florida -> California … not much chance of snow [20:01] we have enough snow.. Just not alot of it. [20:01] it snowed a little here (Cheyenne) yesterday [20:02] I'm flipping between the Muppet Christmas Carol and shrek the halls [20:02] LOL [20:02] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:02] I'm told California has snow if you go to the mountainous bits. >8) [20:03] It does, but that's far :) … okay .. far is relative. I think I'm about 4 hrs from snow [20:03] I'm about 30 seconds from snow. [20:03] ;) [20:04] [Owlhawk] it's on the back deck. and on the bbq [20:04] [Owlhawk] at least i can still open the back doort. that's rare for Dec till april [20:04] I like snow … admittedly I've only visited snow, never lived in it [20:05] i do not like it. had a bad experience in it back in 96 [20:05] the Marley's were dead to begin with.. [20:05] *searches Netflix for the Muppet Christmas Carol* [20:05] When I was in college in Ann Arbor, we had several south Asian students who had literally never seen snow before. (Except for one who went to one of those giant warehouses where they turn it into a freezer and make fake snow and ice for an amusement park.) [20:06] Lol [20:06] My folks made a point to take us to go skiing when we were young … I think I was 11? they both went to school in England so had seen a lot of snow and knew how to ski [20:06] Mind you … it was *so* cold they had to have snow blowers to put snow on the slopes ... [20:06] [Owlhawk] I didn't think england got all that much snow.,.. [20:06] I only really cross country skied. [20:07] I down hill'ed once. [20:07] It doesn't Owl, but it's close to the Alps [20:07] Sings.. No cheeses for us meeces [20:08] *** Jypsie (Mibbit@6303632e.ks.ok.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:08] [Owlhawk] I only count it as snow once it gets to the point where i have to shovel...about 2 feet or so. [20:08] Michael Cain rocks [20:09] Muppets won [20:09] OMG .. Black Adder has done a Christmas Carol :) [20:09] of course the muppets won :) [20:09] l [20:09] lol [20:09] England does get some snow, just not much compared to what Michigan and Ontario get. [20:09] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@29adbdb.94c612e8.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:09] Netflix does not have Muppet's Christmas Carole … I'm sad [20:09] Surrounded by water it is too warm [20:09] Victoria - Yep, with Nicola Bryant (Peri from Doctor Who) in it, I remember it well. [20:10] It's all relative .. we get flurries here and everyone freaks out about snow [20:10] was it fun, Rob? [20:10] [Owlhawk] we get 4 or 5 feet and the kids celebrate. I check my beer supply [20:10] It was! It's the only glimpse we see of the space opera version of Edmund and Baldrick. [20:11] Yay! Amazon has the Muppets! [20:11] *** ShelaArion (Android@6ca5ed18.6ca5f0a3.173.86.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfYx_013UuY [20:11] Cool :) sounds like I have movies to watch … and a Dr. Who day all Christmas [20:13] @Rob .. LOL [20:13] ;) [20:13] [Owlhawk] I'm almost done with the Pertwee years. [20:14] what's that owl? [20:14] *** MattSeneca (Matt@14055a92.14055a55.76.3.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:15] Erin, he's one of the actors who played Dr. Who [20:15] [Owlhawk] 3rd Doctor. [20:15] Oh, sorry I don't follow Dr who. [20:16] Thanks Owl, I only know the recent restart .. and Baker :) [20:16] [Owlhawk] One of the best ones as well. First four are, I think, the best of them all. [20:16] [Owlhawk] Although the new ones have been very good [20:16] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@29adbdb.94c612e8.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:16] [Owlhawk] Baker is 4 [20:16] how old is the show? [20:16] [Owlhawk] 1963 [20:17] I'm still not caught up on the latest season, but we have them recorded. Going to make a marathon before the Christmas Special is out [20:17] [Owlhawk] William Hartnell was the first Doctor [20:17] Pertwee was the Doctor from 1970 to 1974. [20:17] the show did go on hiatus for a while in the middle [20:17] Oh [20:17] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:17] [Owlhawk] I have one episode to catch up on, I think. then I'm good. I watch them online. [20:17] wow, packed house tonight [20:18] Hi Trent [20:18] :) hi. [20:18] hihi [20:18] We can't get them online here Owl .. so sad [20:18] what show? [20:18] Packed enough. >8) [20:18] Dr. Who :) [20:18] Dr who. [20:18] [Owlhawk] Doctor Who. [20:18] packed is good! [20:18] [Owlhawk] Victoria, look up XBMC in google. it works anywhere. [20:19] oh??? [20:19] [Owlhawk] but it does use bandwidth [20:19] … goes to google [20:19] a friend was having monday night doctor who for a while [20:19] :) [20:19] we watched all of the latest season [20:19] ...i don't know how i feel about Peter Capaldi, lol [20:19] I wonder if I'd like the show. [20:20] Scared me as a kid. [20:20] it's very british and very crazy [20:20] [Owlhawk] I like him. We're finally getting away from the doctors designed to attract the teenage girls [20:20] [Owlhawk] I suspect you would Erin. Ask Leo about it. He's could help you with that. [20:20] I'm getting used to Capaldi. I'm glad that he's older … although I did enjoy the younger doctors from an aesthetic point of view :) [20:21] Lol [20:22] there's magic in the air this evening. Magic in the air... [20:22] hee hee [20:22] Man I love the Muppets [20:22] mana mana [20:22] doo doo dododo [20:22] :) [20:23] there's just one more sleep till Christmas [20:23] (in the movie) [20:23] i just don't like how Doctor-12 is a dick to Clara... [20:23] bah .. this xmbc app is going to make we want to get appleTV so I can stream to my tv [20:23] [Owlhawk] meh, it makes sense if you remember that he isn't human [20:23] [Owlhawk] lol [20:24] She does give him back a bit :) [20:24] yeah technically he isn't human [20:24] but really, he is very much human [20:24] in every way that counts [20:24] [Owlhawk] I'm looking at Roku and then a separate computer with xbmc connected that I can switch with [20:24] then what is he? [20:24] [Owlhawk] Timelord. [20:24] he's The Doctor [20:24] :-P [20:24] [Owlhawk] he's from Galifrey. [20:25] @Owl .. lacking that extra computer to switch with (although … my PC needs an upgrade ….. ) [20:25] Oh that explains everything.. Lkl [20:25] (Apple PC is cheaper) [20:25] lol [20:25] *** Alusa-ICTX (Alusa@a1ede5c7.dsl.skt2ca.3e6fd2e2.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:25] err. .. appleTV :) [20:25] [Owlhawk] I currently have 8 computers or so in the house.... [20:25] yeah .. we only have 3 (not counting the dead ones) [20:25] we have like 4 [20:25] [Owlhawk] enough that i'm giving my aunt one on boxing day [20:25] not counting various mobile devices [20:25] and tablets/phones don't count right? [20:25] heh [20:25] lol [20:25] [Owlhawk] I've tossed more then 40 in the last 2 years [20:26] *** Zekra (Mibbit@6ca5ecbb.6ca5f05d.50.124.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:26] I need to pull the hard drives out before we trash them, but …… yeah …. eventually [20:26] the one im using right now i've had since 2007 [20:26] wow [20:26] though almost every part in it is now an upgrade [20:26] LOL [20:26] hello everyone [20:26] except for the motherboard [20:26] Hi Zekra [20:26] Heklo [20:26] Hello [20:26] [Owlhawk] my desktop I rebuilt in June. it was 12 years old and the motherboard finally died around Wellsprings [20:26] hi zekra [20:26] hello [20:27] I think my computer is only about 4 years old [20:27] my wife's computer i built myself [20:27] nice [20:27] i had never done anything like that before [20:27] i currently only have my phone [20:27] [Owlhawk] I have the advantage of being a computer tech [20:27] i was sorta proud that it all worked out, heh [20:27] Glad you could get your phone to work Strongbear! [20:27] yeah i'm more software than hardware [20:27] So .. all these Druids in here and we're talking about computers :) [20:28] [Owlhawk] yup [20:28] hey the druids were the intellectuals and geeks of their day [20:28] I'm immersed in muppets [20:28] Well be definition we all use computers here. >8) [20:28] [Owlhawk] we do ritual over them afterall [20:28] I would like to ask about food at ceremonies. has anyone been to a ceremony that didn't have a very big spread? [20:28] we are merely honoring their millenia old tradition [20:28] gotta be something behind the *neo* descriptor [20:28] LOL true, but does anyone have a different topic that they'd like to discuss? [20:28] and then noticed Zekra's question [20:28] :-P [20:28] I'm using my phone to connect to this chat. [20:28] [Owlhawk] many [20:29] Zekra, yes I have … our Protogrove does a shared meal after the ritual, so there's food there, but another local group usually only has snacks or nothing [20:29] i've been to a few where there wasn't food afterwards [20:29] where snacks = fruit in season [20:29] [Owlhawk] At fests Ive been too, big ones, then does not tend to be food at the rituals. [20:29] Most of our rituals done have food.. [20:29] yeah, festivals [20:29] and rits held in public stores [20:29] [Owlhawk] The one I came to did Erin [20:29] I think size is a deciding factor .. and location [20:29] To eat afterwards I mean. [20:30] There should definitely be food at public rituals. [20:30] but all the ones at people's houses in established groups have always had food [20:30] i am a solitary so i cant answer the question Zekra [20:30] Well Strong .. do you think that there should always be food? or only sometimes? [20:30] [Owlhawk] food helps ground you after wards [20:30] Our protogrove does a potluck after every ritual [20:30] Owl? We only had offering [20:30] [Owlhawk] I thought I remembered a snack.... [20:31] the wicca coven i was a part of back in NJ did that every time [20:31] it was actually part of the ritual in a way [20:31] [Owlhawk] Cakes and Ales section of wiccan rit [20:31] well there's the communal sharing during the personal offerings and omen.. [20:31] But we didn't have a meal afterwards [20:32] [Owlhawk] then that was it. I am getting old...... [20:32] Maybe we need to add "food" to the Core Order. >8) [20:32] than here is a different one about food. considering traditional dishes, has anyone ever tried to recreate any REALLY old recipes here? [20:32] speaking of cakes and ale...i know that ADF rit has the Water of Life part (the sleeper has awakened! lol) [20:32] LOL food is nice, and it does help to ground, but it can be a bit much in larger groups, or groups where most of the participants are guests [20:32] V- I tend to think of rites as a gathering among friends-even if I am the only corporeal one there. friends tend to like to share a meal [20:32] I used to Zekra, when I was in the SCA [20:32] I have done many medieval recipes in the SCA [20:33] we had a total of 10 ppl at the tree ring this year for Yule, and had 25 ppl at the vigil! [20:33] Strongbear, that's a very good point, and why my protogrove shares a meal [20:33] but do any groups also do a food thing during that, like wiccans do? [20:33] I've never seen food shared during the ritual, only after [20:33] Mine does Trent [20:33] We've done food and drink as the return blessing, sure. Actually, we do that most of the time. But small amounts. [20:33] we share food during the omen. [20:33] Erin .. can you give an example? [20:33] We did s'mores during ritual once [20:34] mmm … s'mores [20:34] We get timbits or cookies or something [20:34] cool [20:34] that's new to me, but interesting [20:34] and we share juice for the hollowing of the waters. [20:35] yeah, I've seen apple juice used [20:35] *** rmagill (rmagill@8dd1f883.c3-0.eas-ubr1.atw-eas.pa.cable.6ca6e6e8.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:35] yeah, in my coven we'd do all kinds of things [20:35] the drink was usually alcoholic though :-P [20:35] so its uncommon for food to be used during ritual, what about as a sacrifice? [20:35] this yule was my first high day, as part of the rite I ate/shared my supper [20:36] We have a prayer of sacrifice.. That's it [20:36] We often use food as offerings [20:36] I like that strongbear [20:36] Strongbear .. that could be pretty powerful [20:36] We do food for offerings as well. [20:36] for offerings, we often offer food .. bread and butter and big :) [20:36] Always a stick of Irish butter on Imbolc [20:36] food is a very appropriate offering. [20:36] ? irish butter? [20:36] We're very bigon the "shared meal" aspect of ritual and offerings. >8) [20:36] we always use good as offerings. We celebrate in a public Park. [20:37] Food. [20:37] Not good. [20:37] Irish Butter for Brighd and a Protogrove tradition. We started on Imbolc and it just kept going. [20:37] nice :) [20:37] But it's never alcoholic [20:37] we can't have alcohol in public Park. [20:37] *nod* [20:38] this time i used apple cider [20:38] I have been making these "fairy cakes" that tend to end up more like frosted muffins as a sacrifice [20:38] the whole food for offering then consuming during the ritual reminds me of the ancient practices where they would sacrifice a cow (or whatever) then eat it [20:38] Anyone wanna check out the website I've been working on. For my grove? Redmaplegrove.org [20:38] yeah, and then give the bones to the gods [20:38] which brings me Victoria to lamb [20:38] mmmm … lamb is tasty? [20:39] i concur :) [20:39] how about this- instead of sacrificing, sharing? [20:39] I hafe tried to cook it once as a stew and no one could stand it, not even me [20:39] anyone? [20:39] @Erin, you made the website? [20:39] *** TomB (Mibbit@548c945c.prvdri.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:40] [Owlhawk] giving the bones to the gods, and the fat, had it's origins in Greek myths. So it was a cultural./religous tradition to do it. [20:40] i will like looking at it erin [20:40] I love the image you used on the header [20:40] Well, Ian set it up for me, but I added all of the new content (last 4 rituals) [20:40] nice! [20:41] I'm still waiting for the omen from our Yule rit [20:41] it looks nice :) [20:41] *** rmagill (rmagill@8dd1f883.c3-0.eas-ubr1.atw-eas.pa.cable.6ca6e6e8.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Bye] [20:41] very cool [20:41] *** rmagill (rmagill@8dd1f883.c3-0.eas-ubr1.atw-eas.pa.cable.6ca6e6e8.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:41] *** rmagill (rmagill@8dd1f883.c3-0.eas-ubr1.atw-eas.pa.cable.6ca6e6e8.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Client Quit] [20:41] so that link doesn't work, but the rest does. :) [20:41] thanks Trent! [20:42] i thought i had messed mine up but when i askd if my offerings were accepted i got sowulo [20:42] :( [20:42] :) [20:43] that sounds like it worked Strongbear :) [20:43] Nuts, this is going to be a 2hr movie, and I gotta go to bed in 15 mins [20:44] yeah. next time will do better :) [20:44] Remember … it's "practice" not "perfect" :) [20:44] :) [20:44] Welp, I gotta get to bed. [20:45] true. its also "quit reading and do" lol [20:45] Have a good week everyone [20:45] have a great night Erin! [20:45] [Owlhawk] Strongbear, some of us having been doing this for more then 20 years. And we still say, I should do better on a regular basis [20:45] thanks for sharing [20:45] night Victoria :) [20:45] I'm way behind on content for our site. That should be my holiday week project. [20:45] [Owlhawk] good night Erin [20:45] @Strongbear yep :) and Owl is totally right (although I'm only 3, 4? years in) [20:45] night owl. [20:46] *** ErinP (Mibbit@36921445.dsl.282eb7d8.ca.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:47] this was my first high day. i am going to complete the dp this year [20:47] awesome Strong! [20:47] you can do it strongbear! [20:48] *** MattSeneca (Matt@14055a92.14055a55.76.3.imsk) has quit IRC [] [20:49] :) [20:49] i got the woty book to slow me down this time around [20:49] has anyone cooked lab before? [20:49] LOL [20:49] cooked lab? lamb? [20:49] Hubby has [20:49] lab? well there was this one time in bosnia... [20:50] i mean golden retiever....err no i mean lamb....sillies [20:50] [Owlhawk] Dog tastes like red pepper paste...at least it does in South Korea [20:50] *** AndroUser (androirc@9b1708d1.cpe.net.cable.f33844f1.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:50] *** AndroUser is now known as LisaWM [20:50] Hello Lisa [20:50] i didnt know i was eating it until after [20:50] Hey [20:51] I've never managed to be in South Korea while they were serving dog [20:51] hi lisa [20:51] On my phone tonight so hope my thumbs can keep up [20:51] Hi Lisa! [20:51] hi lisa [20:51] hello lisa. on phone as well [20:52] ok on to more tasty delicacies, libations, what is a common libation for the ritual [20:52] What are we currently discussing? [20:52] [Owlhawk] I use olive oil most of the time. That and incense is my usual sacriface [20:52] Varies from ritual to ritual [20:53] Wine is fairly traditional for Hellenic. [20:53] i tend to use juice or water [20:53] Whiskey to hard cider [20:53] *** BunnyA (Mibbit@ba5d122a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:53] *** McbrideK (Mibbit@8464993b.hsd1.wa.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:53] for family oriented groups is water more popular? [20:53] [Owlhawk] Hello Bunny. I think you got it work this time [20:54] Zekra, we tend to use water for our protogrove since there are a couple of kids who join us [20:54] We always offer both alcohol and nonalchol option [20:54] *** McbrideK (Mibbit@8464993b.hsd1.wa.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Client Quit] [20:54] In more mixed groups, we do what Rovena does and have 2 options [20:54] yeah, that's what we did this past weekend [20:54] Hi everyone! Yes, I can see people here now- thanks, Owlhawk. [20:54] [Owlhawk] your welcome [20:55] hi bunn [20:55] Hello Bunny [20:55] *waves at Zekra* [20:55] hi unny [20:55] Generally it's either water, or both. We rarely have only alcoholic options [20:55] err, bunny [20:55] hello bunny [20:55] Hi Bunny! [20:55] *waves to Rovena, TrentDirenna, and Strongbear too* [20:56] We only use water. We tried two options and for us it was clunky and awkward. We decided it was better to have one option that everyone can share in. [20:56] But that's just us. [20:56] so if a minor participates can they use alcohol as a sacrifice or would that be a risky deal? [20:56] I would have a revolt if there wasn't alcohol. [20:57] *** TomB (Mibbit@548c945c.prvdri.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:57] We don't give minors the option to use alcohol [20:57] just safer [20:57] [Owlhawk] So long as the minor isn't consuming the alchol, i don't see what the problem would be. [20:57] *** TomB (Mibbit@548c945c.prvdri.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:57] [Owlhawk] bt i'm a solitary.... [20:57] [Owlhawk] but.... [20:58] We changed to only water for the blessing when we had a regular attendee who was a recovering alcoholic. We didn't want to seem as if we were singling them out. [20:58] That's a good point Lisa [20:58] Just like Rovena always having alcohol :) [20:58] it seems to be a personal choice. but i tend to think of it as sharing so i would not offer something i should not have or dislike. i dont like cauliflower so... [20:58] Evening [20:58] Hi Tom [20:58] We always do the non-alcoholic stuff for return flow. [20:59] Hello [20:59] hello tom [20:59] Offerings are personal preference though, I'm just speaking about return flow/blessing. [20:59] If a deity likes something that I hate I still would use it as offering [20:59] Michigan law is weird in that it says minors can drink alcohol at religious ceremonies held in a church or temple. Weird for us Pagans who do stuff outdoors, anyway. We honestly don'tknow if it covers us. [21:00] [Owlhawk] that is odd. sounds like something to get a legal opinon on [21:00] Interesting Rob [21:00] We have 8 to 10 at rituals and it is an even split as to those who want alcohol and those who prefer the other option [21:00] We've had both at my grove, though not usually at the same time, and we tend toward non-alcoholic as a default. If the blessing was done with alcohol, I instructed my child to sprinkle it (a few drops) on herself rather than drink it, which seemed like a good option to other parents too. [21:00] That's not a bad option Bunny [21:00] not a fan of mushrooms, but FSM may enjoy mushrooms with noodley apendages outstretched [21:00] Each judge could rule differently [21:01] FSM? [21:01] in my wicca coven we'd always use alcohol, but we didn't have kids very often [21:01] I agree with Owlhawk in that the Michigan law sounds like something to get a legal opinion on at some point. [21:01] Or we can just keep doing non-alcoholic return flow. >8) [21:01] rovena- agreed but i have not run into a situation that something is asked for that i do not like [21:01] if they were old enough, i think we would let them have a sip [21:01] it's been a while :) [21:02] Victoria-Leona, I believe FSM as used here refers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. [21:02] Flying Spaghetti Monster i was joking in reference to the topic [21:02] ohhhhh [21:02] Given our current membership, I think there'd be little to no interest in switching to alcohol. [21:02] I'd probably let mine have a little sip (they're 9), they drink at church when the other half takes them. [21:02] [Owlhawk] understandable. [21:03] what about mead [21:03] [Owlhawk] 20 gallons or so in secondary currently...what about it? [21:03] Down here many judges don't consider us a "real" religion [21:03] I tended to err on the side of caution with mine because I was divorced with split custody and... well, we know how that can be. [21:03] @Tom, if they're your kids, it's your choice :) [21:03] *** rmagill (rmagill@8dd1f883.c3-0.eas-ubr1.atw-eas.pa.cable.6ca6e6e8.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:04] Owl … you could ship some down here :) We'll make an offering then share! [21:04] okay, gotta get going [21:04] it was nice chatting with everyone :) [21:04] Have a good night Trent [21:04] you too :) [21:04] night [21:04] night trent [21:04] [Owlhawk] lol. All of it is already spoken for actually. one batch for Wellsprings, as requested, and the rest for KG. plus I don't think | can ship across the border legally [21:04] [Owlhawk] good night [21:05] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:05] I am not certain that it is legal for parents to provide their kids with alcohol (might depend on the state), but it does seem that unless there's someone around to object, it's an almost unenforceable rule. [21:05] Night TrentDirenna! [21:05] I think it does depend on where you are Bunny [21:05] *** Drum (Mibbit@14055acf.6ca5ecde.73.161.imsk) has joined #ADF [21:05] so sweets, how about sweets as a shared/sacrifice [21:05] [Owlhawk] hello Drum [21:05] My Portuguese friends would all be in the slammer :) [21:05] Good night, Owlhawk! [21:05] *** Mode change [+o Drum] on #ADF by ChanServ [21:05] But then, I didn't grow up in the states and don't have any kids, so my experience is limited [21:05] And some places have exceptions for religious ceremonies [21:05] Hello Drum [21:05] Hi Drum [21:05] hello drum [21:05] Hello, all! [21:06] Bunny - Even if the kid is the only witness, if the parents divorce, you'd better believe a disapproving parent might bring it up. [21:06] Hi Drum! [21:06] @Zekra, sweets could be good as long as there's no diabetics [21:06] i give sweets to Freya often [21:06] Hello, Rob! [21:06] ….. sweets to Freya ….. ohhhhhhhh [21:06] I agree, RobHenderson- which is why I always played it safe and went with the "sprinkle" option. [21:06] somehow I never thoguht of that … I have a box of chocolates to share with her [21:06] Hi Drum [21:06] hello drum [21:06] However, I expect there are situations where both parents attend rituals together with their child [21:06] Hello, Magill [21:06] In cases where alcohol is passed at a rite, I just sniff it and pass it along. [21:06] ...Strongbear... [21:07] Hi Drum! [21:07] i like giving Her the chocolate covered cherries [21:07] @Rob, some folks in one of my non-ADF groups will spill a little on the ground [21:07] Thanks for the idea Strong! I need to go shopping tomorrow :) [21:07] What I do for my home shrines an altars is allow the alcohol to be "consumed", as in evapourate [21:07] and altars [21:07] *** tnowlin (Mibbit@6ca5f043.6ca5ed17.100.42.imsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:08] How long does that usually take, Drum? I've never tried it that way. [21:08] A shot glass of whiskey will last about 5 days or so [21:08] [Owlhawk] or wait for the cat to finish drinking the liquid offerings. olive oil is a favourite [21:08]