*** Opened channel log for #ADF at 11/11/2014 2:39:59 PM [16:29] *** Heather (Mibbit@14055ad7.14055b30.50.13.imsk) has joined #ADF [16:30] *** Heather (Mibbit@14055ad7.14055b30.50.13.imsk) has quit IRC [Client Quit] [17:45] *** SamanthaPrice (Mibbit@11cc7f47.home1.5659fae7.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:34] *** Rovena (Mibbit@14055b31.6ca5ec7e.174.33.imsk) has joined #ADF [19:35] *** Mode change [+o Rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [19:49] Hello [19:58] *** SaraKBlackwelder (Mibbit@6e188568.tampfl.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:59] Good Evening! [19:59] *** ErinP (Mibbit@327cb411.dsl.282eb7d8.ca.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:59] Hello Sara [19:59] Are you expecting the polar blast? [19:59] hello everyone! [20:00] Hello Erin [20:00] hi Rovena [20:00] How are you tonight? [20:00] Rovena, were you asking me?? Because I doubt it ;) [20:00] *** AndroUser (androirc@14055ab0.6ca5ed20.96.241.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:01] we've changed our discussion nights Monday so i shoukd be here from now on.. :) [20:01] You are lucky Sara. [20:01] Hello, I hope everyone is well :-) [20:01] hello! [20:01] WIll be glad to have you regularly, Erin [20:01] *** AndroUser is now known as CatHeath [20:01] :) [20:02] *** JasonM (AndChat569@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:02] Hello Cat [20:02] Hay all [20:02] Hello Rovena :-) [20:02] is owlhawk active yet? [20:03] hi jasonm [20:03] Hay Jason :-) [20:03] No, he will be late [20:03] ok [20:04] im impressed i can do this from my phone.. so plz excuse any typos [20:04] So, his do these ADF chats work? This is the first I've made it to? Is there usually a topic or is it more freeform? [20:04] How..typo. [20:04] Lots of typos [20:04] Freeform most of the time [20:05] Sometimes there is a topic, it usually doesn't last long [20:05] ah [20:05] Ok that's cool! [20:06] well we were discussing if the gods existed before we did. in my grove discussion last night [20:06] Way to jump in with the big questions [20:07] like who made up the sagas... [20:07] what are their sources [20:07] Well the Irish have the book of invasions that says the house were there before man. [20:08] Ahh, or a nice twist on that, if we ever have to leave this world, what will happen to the gods? Will they travel with us? Will they stay on this empty world without worshippers? [20:08] Houses of the gods* [20:09] Perhaps the animals would worship the Gods [20:09] Will some stay and others leave? Will it be like Pratchett's 'small gods'? [20:09] so we should believe one enlightened writer? [20:09] No just giving an example [20:09] no i know [20:10] i know what you ment [20:10] i was just saying, theres no real way of knowing [20:10] The Gods seam inclined to travel. What were once likely local Gods seam much more global as their cultures have sped out [20:11] So the at the very least have a special bond with people [20:11] i mean, how do i know brigit is really the name of the energy in charge of healing? [20:12] There is also the question of other worldly beings that we don't directly worship. [20:12] A rose by any other name . . . [20:13] At the end of the day, does it really matter though? We know that through reciprocal relationships, good things happen for our communities. [20:13] We have reciprocal relationships with the beings we call gods. [20:13] we can have [20:13] .. [20:14] Yahweh, God, and Alah can be seen as regional names for the same entity. [20:14] yes [20:17] but do you think there was a community of gods before we existed? and if so, different cultures gave the gods different names as cultural norms dictated [20:19] anyone? [20:19] [Owlhawk] hello [20:19] hi owlhawk [20:19] Hello Owlhawk [20:19] It's possible that they exist universally and take on relatable cultural forms as needed. That different personification of universal truth exist for all cultures of all species on all world's. [20:20] good point jason [20:20] [Owlhawk] There is a reason we call such things Mysteries. [20:20] lol [20:21] [Owlhawk] We can discuss such things and will never come to a known answer. [20:21] Though it does make the Gods sound a lot like Q from star trek tng [20:21] [Owlhawk] known as in provable [20:21] lol yes [20:21] *** Victoria-Leona (Mibbit@6ca5f082.6ca5ed20.38.111.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:21] im jusr interested in knowing different points of view [20:22] Evening all! [20:22] hello [20:22] Hello [20:22] Hello Victoria [20:22] [Owlhawk] hello [20:22] Hay Victoria [20:22] How is everyone doing this evening? [20:23] Cold! [20:23] it isnt raining... yet [20:23] ohh .. rain would be nice [20:24] its a tuesday, it always rains on tuesdays here in ottawa [20:24] I'm hoping all the rain we are getting is getting it out of the way before snow. [20:24] Understand that [20:25] [Owlhawk] rain with snow expected soonish [20:25] rain is fun .. snow is fun to visit .. but I can't imagine that rain+snow is much fun [20:25] It often equals an ice layer [20:26] for the past 3 months it has rained every tuesday except one. at first i thought it was just our day, but ive come to believe its cause of our grove meeting, as we changed it to mondays ab [20:26] and yesterday it rained [20:26] hee hee [20:27] Sounds about right [20:28] *** MattSeneca (Matt@e4551a30.dhcp.5a90edde.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:28] Evening matt [20:29] good evening [20:29] Hi Matt [20:30] hi Matt [20:31] So has anyone been up to anything exciting this past week? [20:32] [Owlhawk] nope, unless you count brewing two beers... [20:32] Two beers? that is a small batch [20:32] That's awesome, what did you brew? [20:32] i cleaned up the basement... gave away all my pagan books.. sigh [20:33] Why did you do that Erin? [20:33] anyone want some cooking books? [20:33] [Owlhawk] an ale and a pilsner after I bottled a stout that I happen to be drinking at the moment... [20:33] brewing can be fun Owl! [20:34] [Owlhawk] and tasty. [20:34] cause my mom was bitching that they were taking up too much space [20:34] [Owlhawk] The question is how much of the two strawberry meads the wife will allow to make it to fest [20:34] yep :) I haven't had a chance to brew in a few months ... need to find time! [20:34] [Owlhawk] That sucks Erin. [20:34] sorry to hear that Erin. [20:35] ya, but theyre with a good friend, so i can always visit [20:35] [Owlhawk] I still need to start a pomegranate mead. [20:35] Anyone got a good beginner's mead recipe? [20:35] [Owlhawk] excellent. hopefully you can find some space in future [20:35] [Owlhawk] google JAO [20:35] i need to move out [20:35] [Owlhawk] that's a good one to start off with [20:36] I have yet to make a mead [20:36] i make 43k a year, and i still cant afford to move out on my own unless i moved to vaniee [20:36] vanier [20:37] Where do you live Erin? [20:37] ottawa [20:37] Ohh .. pomegranate mead sounds good [20:38] Owl, have you ever tried a quick mead? [20:38] [Owlhawk] www.gotmead.com have some great forums that are very friendly to beginners. fantastic place to start [20:38] Owl, Is that Joe's Ancient Orange? [20:39] [Owlhawk] Joe's Ancient Orange is a quick mead. takes about two months. [20:39] [Owlhawk] yes it is. [20:40] [Owlhawk] my naked mead, which I found again after getting home from fest, took almost 5 years to ferment. [20:40] wow [20:40] thats crazy [20:40] yeah .. mead can take a while [20:40] [Owlhawk] I should have a bottle or two with me next KG Erin [20:41] [Owlhawk] it's a nice one. took third place at wellsprings [20:41] I've seen some "quick meads" that take 2 weeks ... it's not really mead, it's more like a fermented honey drink - very sweet and not much alcohol [20:41] i still have 18 bottles of the apple wine shawn made for me.. [20:42] [Owlhawk] nice. I liked that one. [20:42] [Owlhawk] two weeks wouldn't be drinkable. [20:43] [Owlhawk] I started the naked mead the september after the KG at Raven's Knoll from FerretLady's honey. [20:43] [Owlhawk] after the first KG..... [20:43] i cant get the bottles open by myself lol [20:43] [Owlhawk] I would volunteer to help but you live too far away [20:43] lol [20:44] This is kind of interesting, a friend just shared it. http://twistedsifter.com/2014/11/anthem-arizona-veterans-memorial/ [20:44] maybe if you stretchdd really dar [20:44] far [20:44] that's very cool Jason [20:45] *** Dale (guest@da0a743d.new.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:46] why is it only commonwealth countries wear poopies for remembrance day? [20:46] are poppies native elsewhere? [20:46] [Owlhawk] not sure. the Colonel that wrote In Flander's Fields was Canadian [20:46] they arent native to canada.. [20:47] yes [20:47] mm .. good point [20:47] We wear poppies as well [20:47] i heard otherwise [20:48] do vets sell poppies in the states? [20:48] Yes [20:49] coool [20:49] Various organizations sell them. It was more common when I was a kid than now [20:49] Good evening [20:50] well, I'm headed out....sorry i didn't get to chat more. little gal is not feeling good. have a great night all! [20:50] theyre looking into making it a national holiday in canada [20:50] Hay Dale [20:50] Hello Dale [20:50] hi Dale [20:50] [Owlhawk] good night Sara [20:50] hi dale [20:50] *** SaraKBlackwelder (Mibbit@6e188568.tampfl.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:50] ok sara [20:50] It is here [20:51] [Owlhawk] I like the idea of kids not getting the day off. School assemblies force them to attend. I doubt they would of their own choice. [20:52] Is there a particular topic tonight? [20:52] Schools are closed here [20:52] ppl are afraid kids wont learn anything if it is. but we have christmas assemblies before xmas and its a national holiday [20:52] No Dale it is open topic [20:53] i could see schools having an assembly beforehand [20:53] We tend to have holiday celebrations in schools, most aren't allowed to have Christmas things [20:54] well we still have publically funded catholic school boards . [20:54] My kids school has a Winter Assembly, and work has a “Winter Holiday” that coincides with Christmas [20:55] The separation of church and state is constantly being tested here [20:56] dale: does santa turn up? [20:58] ErinP, yes, he showed up last year. [20:58] ahh [20:59] but santa is very culturally diverse [20:59] He came and handed out candy to the kids who were in the concert. [20:59] ah [21:00] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:02] Hello! [21:02] hello [21:02] Hay bonnie [21:02] Hello Bonnie [21:02] Hello Bubbly....I mean Bonnie [21:02] Hi Bonnie [21:02] :) [21:02] ;) [21:02] I am quite bubbly! tee-hee. [21:03] [Owlhawk] someone has to be. e [21:03] [Owlhawk] eases the pressure on the rest of us to be cheerfull [21:03] Why are you so bubbly? [21:03] went to the denist today.. gotta go back for scaling and a filling [21:04] lo [21:04] I'm bubbly today because people came and took away a basement full of junk. [21:04] ooo [21:04] Now I have a basement I can clean and repair and make useful. [21:04] co [21:04] cool [21:04] Woot [21:04] goodbye pool table, hello exercize room. [21:05] *happy dance* [21:05] Lol [21:05] [Owlhawk] No pool table??? that's a major diaster! [21:05] I would love to have room for a pooltable [21:05] it was very old, broken, and had mice nests in it. [21:05] it was not a good pool table. [21:05] [Owlhawk] that's even worse! [21:05] it came with the house :] [21:06] Mine are horrible pool players [21:06] How sad [21:06] we are renovating all over. the room off of that room has 1 of our 2 fireplaces, so that's going to be our craft/brewing room. [21:06] upstairs once it's done will have our altar room and master bedroom. [21:06] i got stoles made up for the regional druid of eastern canada (dont tell lisa owlhawk) and one made up for the senior druid of red maple grove (dont tell michael, owlhawk) ;) [21:06] Ooh what kind of stoles? [21:06] [Owlhawk] What's my bribe? [21:06] green emboidered [21:07] hand embroidered [21:07] i dunno owl, whatcha want? [21:07] [Owlhawk] lol [21:07] [Owlhawk] I'm sure you'll come up with something that blondie will approve of [21:08] lisa will be here on sat for a workshop so ill give it to her then [21:08] lol [21:08] [Owlhawk] I'm sure she'll like it [21:09] she'll love it [21:09] get a photo [21:09] im gonna get one made up for the dep reg druid (me!) when i have enough money.. they cost $100 each to make it [21:09] did Brighde make yours? [21:09] Kay Allen? [21:09] no this local lady friend did it [21:09] ohhh [21:10] even has the adf logo on tbe neck part [21:10] [Owlhawk] anyone I know [21:10] [Owlhawk] ? [21:10] rebecca graves [21:10] [Owlhawk] Should have guessed. Rebecca's stuff is great. Blondie has one of the purses she made for KG this year [21:10] tall thin woman [21:11] yes i remember [21:11] [Owlhawk] yup. Known her since uni [21:11] i love how many artists we have in adf :) [21:11] had them in tbe works since bwfore kg [21:11] [Owlhawk] when I have the money to spare I'm getting her to make me a sarong kilt [21:11] cool [21:12] i dont know if michael will wear his [21:12] i had lee in mind when i commissioned them [21:13] [Owlhawk] figured as much. I was surprised that she didnt' run again [21:13] she thinks theres too many steps to the coor [21:13] *** JasonM (AndChat569@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Bye] [21:14] [Owlhawk] lol [21:14] too bad to [21:14] [Owlhawk] yes it is. [21:14] too many steps, really? [21:14] interesting [21:14] thats her thought. [21:15] [Owlhawk] When you compare a wiccan ritual to a COoR you soon see that the only difference is ADF actually broke down the ritual to it's constituent parts. [21:15] [Owlhawk] they have just as many steps I've found [21:16] ya but she didnt like wicca either. shes not a big fan of structure [21:16] oh I'm not saying anything - just curious. [21:16] [Owlhawk] lol [21:17] Structure is what makes a house strong [21:18] im still perplexed by the hallowing of the waters [21:18] Time for me to run [21:18] Have a great evening all! [21:18] Have a good week [21:18] bye victoria! [21:18] [Owlhawk] good night [21:19] *** Victoria-Leona (Mibbit@6ca5f082.6ca5ed20.38.111.imsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:19] What perplexes you about it? [21:19] i hope to learn more at lisas workshop this weekend [21:19] i just dont see tge need. [21:21] It is what makes the ordinary fluid change into a sacrament [21:22] smacks of catholicism to me [21:22] but ok [21:23] so.. [21:23] that's a good point, actualy. [21:23] It is much older than that [21:23] what does the hallowing/return flow mean to you, Erin? [21:23] out of curiosity [21:24] i only see it as a blessing from the gods [21:24] yes but how does it become a blessing? [21:24] or is it for you (imho) already? [21:24] How would you like to see this blessing expressed [21:25] i really dont know :( [21:26] the words we say make it a blessing? [21:26] are you alright if we share about what it means to us? [21:26] of course, thats why i asked/ brought it up! [21:27] id love some enlightenment [21:27] I see it as imbuing the waters with the blessings from the kindred, though I don’t belive the waters don’t change in substance, unlike Catholic belief. The waters become a symbol, that during the Accepting the Blessing phase allows each individual to choose to accept or not accept the blessings. Without having the physical symbol, it would seem less substansive, and more difficult for people who do not want to accept the blessings (such as [21:27] visitors who are not pagan) to opt out. [21:28] hmm [21:28] ok [21:28] do you do "a gift calls for a gift"? [21:28] Good Dale, I hadn't thought about the opting out option [21:29] So... [21:29] the return flow is yes an exchange of *ghosti (or, a gift for a gift) [21:29] it's imbuing the waters with the message of the omen. [21:30] putting the Kindred's gift into the waters so it can be taken into ourselves. [21:30] ok [21:30] the waters has a lot more of a meaning depending on who/where you are, but imho it's because in the Old days, the waters were kept from the people - sequestered apart except for in specific times. [21:30] ahh [21:31] that's why some use the "all waters are by their very nature sacred, but we have taken these waters and set them apart.." [21:33] ok [21:34] ty [21:34] We have had a Christian come a couple times, and while he is pagan friendly and likes our rituals, he’s not interested in accepting blessings from other gods. [21:34] something to think about.. [21:34] does that help any? :D [21:34] yes [21:35] Dale, have you ever offered that he could pour the waters out onto the ground? he could pour the blessings back in towards the earth. [21:35] or into the well. [21:36] there are times even I don't drink. Usually if the ritual only has one cup. I'll touch the cup to my forehead. [21:36] BonnieCyr, yes, except that we have pagans who refrain from alcohol, and they pour onto the earth rather than drink as symbolizing their acceptance of the blessings. From my experieince in heathen sumbls, pouring on the ground or in the fire is equiavlent to drinking. [21:37] ^ that's all in the eye of who's doing it. [21:37] intent is 9/10 the law ;] [21:37] we dont do alcohol in our grovd [21:38] some don't :] [21:38] my PG never did because I was underage, heh. [21:38] of course, we also have our rituals on public parks and we have kids arounfd [21:39] True. We have chosen for those who don’t accept the blessings that they will have no contact with the blessed waters, be it by holding the horn or if we sprinkle water as the blessings we avoid sprinkling them. [21:40] ah. I guess it's all up to everyone's comfort. <3 [21:40] we use juice [21:40] well its illegal to have open alcohol in public [21:40] When we have alcohol, we always have an non-alcohol option [21:42] ya, i went to this remembrance ceremony for isaac in the local park and much to my surprise yheres whisky in the chalice [21:43] In Louisiana, alcohol is legal in many public places [21:43] i thought it was very poor form of them not to mention that there was alcohol in the drink. my lips were burning for hours [21:44] yeah...that's like common courtesy 101 [21:44] im alergic to most akcohols [21:45] i thought it was dark apple cidee [21:45] cider. [21:45] It is part of our preritual breifing [21:45] it should be part of the prerit, yeah. [21:46] ya [21:47] In WI, parents are able to legally give their children alcohol [21:48] We do mention when we have alcoholic waters and often, but not always, have a non alcoholic alternative. [21:48] It is a gray area here [21:48] ya [21:48] We have to have both due to members' health issues [21:49] alright folks, have an awesome night [21:49] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:50] well we have one vegetarian and he insists on nothing but organic fruit juice, so i told him he could pick up the juice [21:50] Have a good week, Bonnie [21:50] bye bonnie [21:50] That is fair [21:51] i should head to bed too.. :( [21:52] Good night, Erin [21:52] night night [21:52] [Owlhawk] good night Erin [21:52] adios ya'll [21:52] *** MattSeneca (Matt@e4551a30.dhcp.5a90edde.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [] [21:56] I need to scram as well. Last one out, lock up. [21:57] *** ErinP (Mibbit@327cb411.dsl.282eb7d8.ca.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:57] Good night Rovena [21:57] [Owlhawk] good night [21:57] I’ll head out also. Good night. [21:58] *** Dale (guest@da0a743d.new.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Dale] [22:02] *** Rovena (Mibbit@14055b31.6ca5ec7e.174.33.imsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:07] *** SamanthaPrice (Mibbit@11cc7f47.home1.5659fae7.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] *** Closed channel log for #ADF at 11/11/2014 10:25:55 PM