Session Start: Tue Jun 11 19:47:24 2019 Session Ident: #adf 25[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * Now talking in: #adf 25[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-t50kai.cable.rogers.com) joins #adf 28[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org 28[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net at Mon Aug 03 08:55:47 2015 29[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Owlhawk 29[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * #adf has modes: +nrt 29[2019-06-11 19:47:25] * #adf created on Fri May 24 18:37:54 2019 16[2019-06-11 19:58:57]  Hello! 21[2019-06-11 20:01:46] <@Owlhawk> hi] 16[2019-06-11 20:04:45]  The good news is I will be able to spend dedicated time toward Personal Pagan/ADF education, after I graduate from my health coach training in less than two weeks. 21[2019-06-11 20:05:21] <@Owlhawk> that's good 25[2019-06-11 20:06:10] * Drum (Drum@sorcery-k25.mvm.241.72.IP) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 20:06:15]  most definitely. especially since my spiritual education is going to fuel drawing & illustration hobby. 16[2019-06-11 20:06:37]  Greetings all! 16[2019-06-11 20:06:45]  Aloha! 16[2019-06-11 20:06:54]  Aloha! :D 16[2019-06-11 20:07:28]  How is everyone? 16[2019-06-11 20:08:08]  iI am feeling very happy and relaxed (except for my mind, which is racing right now). 21[2019-06-11 20:09:13] <@Owlhawk> Quickly going deaf from Khan's meowing to be let outside 21[2019-06-11 20:09:19] <@Owlhawk> ;) 25[2019-06-11 20:09:41] * StarQuake (Sol@sorcery-bsu.tna.56.172.IP) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 20:09:49]  Every cat has an attitude 16[2019-06-11 20:09:59]  Hello all, busy taking care of some stuff so I won’t be able to chat 16[2019-06-11 20:10:06]  G2g 16[2019-06-11 20:10:27]  have fun 18[2019-06-11 20:11:05]  Glad to hear it Jonathan. I hope all is well with you Owlhawk 16[2019-06-11 20:11:15]  Greetings again, Mouse 21[2019-06-11 20:11:23] <@Owlhawk> it is. how was Three RIvers? I had to work. 16[2019-06-11 20:13:09]  got 2 go. Grocery shopping. 26[2019-06-11 20:13:43] * jonathanallen (jonathanall@sorcery-6dpb90.lv.cox.net) parts #adf 16[2019-06-11 20:17:50]  Three Rivers was *great* 16[2019-06-11 20:17:56]  Great weather 16[2019-06-11 20:18:03]  mosquitos the size of eagles 21[2019-06-11 20:24:01] <@Owlhawk> sounds fairly normal then 21[2019-06-11 20:26:18] <@Owlhawk> Sadly we won't beable to go so long as I'm driving School Bus. Simply too expensive to miss the time 16[2019-06-11 20:26:56]  I understand 25[2019-06-11 20:27:09] * ConorWarren (ConorWarren@sorcery-64sn2t.or.frontiernet.net) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 20:27:11]  It was a really special time, especially with the Brighid dedication 16[2019-06-11 20:27:18]  Greetings, conor 16[2019-06-11 20:27:28]  Howdy, y'all 21[2019-06-11 20:29:10] <@Owlhawk> hello. 21[2019-06-11 20:29:26] <@Owlhawk> I'll see that next year hopefully, we aren't going to KG this year 16[2019-06-11 20:34:32]  I would love to go to KG, but I can't get the time 21[2019-06-11 20:35:05] <@Owlhawk> I completely understand that problem. I think you'd love KG 16[2019-06-11 20:35:32]  (abbreviation?) 21[2019-06-11 20:36:02] <@Owlhawk> Kaliedoscope Gathering. It's Canada's largest Pagan festival 16[2019-06-11 20:36:46]  Ah, thank you! 21[2019-06-11 20:37:17] <@Owlhawk> It's held at Raven's Knoll, same as Three River's Gathering is 25[2019-06-11 20:38:13] * Taliesin2 (shanesaylor@sorcery-hpgl2o.dc.cox.net) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 20:38:31]  Hello 21[2019-06-11 20:39:12] <@Owlhawk> 'ello 16[2019-06-11 20:39:50]  What is the topic for tonight? 21[2019-06-11 20:40:21] <@Owlhawk> no set topic. Do you have something you wish to discuss? 16[2019-06-11 20:41:02]  no. not really just wondering. 16[2019-06-11 20:42:29]  Most of my ideas right now are centered around theology and meaning making but no one seems to like talking about that :P 16[2019-06-11 20:42:31]  It is on my bucket list 16[2019-06-11 20:42:49]  Talk away, Conor! 21[2019-06-11 20:42:52] <@Owlhawk> Ask away Conor. We do have Drum here tonight afterall! 21[2019-06-11 20:43:20] <@Owlhawk> And I'm not bad at times 16[2019-06-11 20:44:56]  Well, it is more of studies showing that conceptualizing the divine as benevolent as opposed to random, chaotic, punishing, easily angered, etc. leads to better outcomes for patient healthcare. Yet it seems that many Pagans do conceptualize the divine as being potentially angry, capricious, and not essentially benevolent/good. What does this mean f 16[2019-06-11 20:44:56]  or the way that Pagans currently construct theology? 16[2019-06-11 20:46:02]  I mean, we can say beliefs are beliefs but beliefs have consequences both personal and social. And as I read more research on pastoral care and patient outcomes I think we sometimes box ourselves into harmful ways of structuring relationship with the divine. 21[2019-06-11 20:46:24] <@Owlhawk> Drum, I think this one is more in your line of research 21[2019-06-11 20:48:05] <@Owlhawk> To me it all comes down to belief. Belief creates reality. That is the crux of magic. How does your belief create your reality? 21[2019-06-11 20:48:39] <@Owlhawk> Each individual works with concepts diferently. It' 16[2019-06-11 20:48:47]  I see my Gods as benevolent 16[2019-06-11 20:48:54]  the Gods 16[2019-06-11 20:49:02]  First off, before we construct anything, do we not have to visualize first? And then once we visualize it we then proceed to make our vision/dream a reality? 21[2019-06-11 20:49:10] <@Owlhawk> s inherent in being human. That belief guides how the Gods are willing to help us. 16[2019-06-11 20:49:12]  Well, from patient care outcomes we know that some beliefs are essentially harmful 21[2019-06-11 20:49:31] <@Owlhawk> How are we sure on that? 16[2019-06-11 20:49:41]  Dunno’ 16[2019-06-11 20:49:47]  Like, if you believe an illness or disease is punishment or inflicted by the divine you have worse patient outcomes 16[2019-06-11 20:49:55]  We don't tell people what to believe, so if they think their Gods are a given way, then we can't do much for those thought processes 16[2019-06-11 20:50:03]  Lemme go through my papers in a bit, I have a couple of studies in mind 21[2019-06-11 20:50:31] <@Owlhawk> That's an indvidual view. Each individual can chose to see things for themselves differently. 16[2019-06-11 20:50:33]  I know one comes from Carrie Doehring's book "The Practice of Pastoral Care: A Postmodern Approach" 16[2019-06-11 20:51:28]  I think it is our jobs to suggest that the Gods are not that way, but, ultimately, it is what people believe for themselves 16[2019-06-11 20:51:38]  this holds for any religious bent 16[2019-06-11 20:51:55]  Yes, but are our thoughts or mental pictures of the Gods (Celtic, Greek, Asatru or Japanese) based on the stories/myths we have read? 21[2019-06-11 20:52:30] <@Owlhawk> Why do we meditate? 16[2019-06-11 20:52:46]  My view of Hannahannas, Earth Mother of the Hittites, is entirely my own. She is not described in any texts 16[2019-06-11 20:52:56]  For example 16[2019-06-11 20:52:58]  Some greek tales feature the Gods as selfish, prideful or just out right petty? 16[2019-06-11 20:53:10]  Sometimes, we have a belief and we bring an image to it 21[2019-06-11 20:53:38] <@Owlhawk> I repeat, Why do we meditate? 16[2019-06-11 20:54:13]  I ask this because I read a story when I was younger about the Greek Figure Arachne. 16[2019-06-11 20:54:26]  I read those Greek stories as well 16[2019-06-11 20:54:35]  I chose to focus on the positives 16[2019-06-11 20:54:46]  Sometimes the lore reflects the attitudes of the audience 16[2019-06-11 20:54:49]  and the author 21[2019-06-11 20:55:05] <@Owlhawk> The Helenic myths/tales have much deeper lessons then it first appears. 16[2019-06-11 20:55:10]  Just my opinion of course 21[2019-06-11 20:55:12] <@Owlhawk> Why do we meditate? 16[2019-06-11 20:56:00]  She was said to more beautiful than Aphrodite and Aphrodite struck her dead as result. But Aphrodite resurrected her into Spider Goddess/seamstres 16[2019-06-11 20:56:09]  I meditate for grounding and centering. Sometimes, in that state, "things" may come to us 16[2019-06-11 20:56:30]  But we must also remember this: 16[2019-06-11 20:56:35]  The lore very often reflects the attitudes of the culture in which it was developed. Historical and cultural context is so important 16[2019-06-11 20:56:46]  And by very often I mean "always" 21[2019-06-11 20:56:51] <@Owlhawk> It is also a method of considering, thinking about and communicating with the Gods and the Spirits. Also the Ancestors 16[2019-06-11 20:56:54]  ;) 16[2019-06-11 20:57:05]  These translations/depictions were done by Christian scholars. 21[2019-06-11 20:57:37] <@Owlhawk> If you're unsure of a Divine view, then that is what Meditation, prayer and ritual are for. ASK in those three sacred Rites!!!! 16[2019-06-11 20:58:13]  They may not want any other God or Goddess depicted as better than the Christian God. 16[2019-06-11 21:00:13]  Have you read the TNKH? :P 21[2019-06-11 21:00:22] <@Owlhawk> IF you question how to view the Gods, then why not MEDITATE and ask the Gods themselves how they wish to be viewed? 16[2019-06-11 21:00:22]  TNKH? 16[2019-06-11 21:00:43]  Tanakh 16[2019-06-11 21:01:23]  Ah. No, sadly 18[2019-06-11 21:01:34]  Owlhawk, ego plays a large part in this. I don't see it as much different from the Christians who go "just pray and listent to the holy spirit" 18[2019-06-11 21:01:42]  Good point, Owlhawk 21[2019-06-11 21:02:28] <@Owlhawk> part of meditating is moving beyond Ego. It's learning to listen to the Gods, the Ancestors, and the Spirits without your Ego and your Id interfering 16[2019-06-11 21:02:36]  I get that 21[2019-06-11 21:02:50] <@Owlhawk> I'm not all that sure that you do, given what you've said tonight 16[2019-06-11 21:03:05]  What I'm saying, is most people aren't actually all that good at it 16[2019-06-11 21:03:15]  So Conor, that may be the case 16[2019-06-11 21:03:32]  What do you tell a patient that thinks the divine has caused a situation? 16[2019-06-11 21:03:35]  How is it much different from the pious Holy Roller who says their god tells them LGBT people are bad? 21[2019-06-11 21:03:39] <@Owlhawk> It took me 20 years to learn to meditate, I didn't say it was easy to learn, just that it was worth the effor 16[2019-06-11 21:03:55]  Ah, that's a good question! It would depend on the patient 16[2019-06-11 21:04:02]  Not all Xians come to that conclusion 16[2019-06-11 21:04:08]  I'm not saying they did 16[2019-06-11 21:04:14]  I'm using the example of a Holy Roller 21[2019-06-11 21:04:43] <@Owlhawk> Conor, My parents are firm Christians, and they welcome my gay uncle into the family with no reservations. 16[2019-06-11 21:04:44]  To say that just sitting there and trying to listen, no matter how long you've been doing it, is not a fool proof way 21[2019-06-11 21:04:55] <@Owlhawk> Khan problems, back shortly 16[2019-06-11 21:06:10]  I'm literally going to a very progressive UMC seminary. I know the wide spectrum of Christian belief. My point is that some people meditate deeply and for a long time and come to opposite conclusions, some conclusions may be incredibly harmful 16[2019-06-11 21:06:34]  Agreed 16[2019-06-11 21:07:36]  As for the careseeker question, it would just depend on the CS. Generally you don't want to directly contradict but holding space and just listening and offering gentle suggestions can be helpful 21[2019-06-11 21:07:45] <@Owlhawk> Back. Idiot cat was trying to jump off the dishwasher and out the back door as Blondie was going throu8gh it 16[2019-06-11 21:07:47]  Drum? Does ADF have members of establish groves give classes in meditation or instruction on how to or how not to do a CooR ritual for newbies or those new to ADF at least? 16[2019-06-11 21:08:13]  But you absolutely cannot say "you need to believe this" because that just causes shame, defensiveness, and distrust 16[2019-06-11 21:08:29]  agreed, Connor 21[2019-06-11 21:08:30] <@Owlhawk> I have, very occasionally, taught basic meditation technique on this channel 21[2019-06-11 21:08:48] <@Owlhawk> I don't like doing so, for obvious reasons 16[2019-06-11 21:08:52]  No, we don't 16[2019-06-11 21:09:08]  We have many examples of Core Order of Ritual on our You Tube channel 16[2019-06-11 21:09:32]  ok thank you. 16[2019-06-11 21:09:41]  Some groves do heave classes, but they vary from Grove to Grove 16[2019-06-11 21:09:49]  have 16[2019-06-11 21:12:52]  We have to lead by example and talk to people about what happens when we meditate, do Core Order, etc./ 21[2019-06-11 21:13:23] <@Owlhawk> Taliesin2, are you suggesting that such videos would be a good thing? 16[2019-06-11 21:14:11]  The Solitary members are doing videos now as well 16[2019-06-11 21:14:38]  I think Rev. Jan and Rev. Lauren did something on the last high day 16[2019-06-11 21:14:51]  Maybe. Especially for the Solitary members who would want to learn, but have no groves near them. 21[2019-06-11 21:14:52] <@Owlhawk> Does this mean Drum, that I should feel lazy? I'm ok with that feeling! 21[2019-06-11 21:15:16] <@Owlhawk> Taliesin2, I am solitary, with no one else with a 3 hour drive of me 16[2019-06-11 21:15:21]  They did a Solitary rite for Beltaine, also on the YouTube channel 16[2019-06-11 21:15:29]  Maybe do a video of a simple meditation. 21[2019-06-11 21:15:47] <@Owlhawk> ok, thanks, I need to check that out, and likely check the email group a whole lot more! 16[2019-06-11 21:16:22]  There are a number of audio files of guided meditations on the web site 16[2019-06-11 21:16:26]  adf.org 21[2019-06-11 21:16:35] <@Owlhawk> and they are good ones. 21[2019-06-11 21:17:08] <@Owlhawk> There's also solitary rituals, prewritten on the website that are awesome, I used some of them myself. 16[2019-06-11 21:17:22]  Maybe have them post in the Solitaries group on Facebook and have them archived as resources? 16[2019-06-11 21:17:59]  Here is a link that might help 16[2019-06-11 21:18:23]  https://www.adf.org/members/training/dedicant-path/articles/coortutorial/two_powers.html 21[2019-06-11 21:18:29] <@Owlhawk> no, that would give ownership of them to facebook and the right to do what ever they wanted to with them to facebook. check the website. we want to maintain ownership and copyright of all tha material with ADF 25[2019-06-11 21:18:57] * Beej (beej@sorcery-2ua.h71.50.71.IP) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 21:19:07]  Hello, Beej 16[2019-06-11 21:19:08]  Hi all 16[2019-06-11 21:19:15]  Well. . .it was posted on YouTube. . .so 16[2019-06-11 21:19:19]  Oh. I thought they resolved the ownership issues on Facebook 21[2019-06-11 21:20:13] <@Owlhawk> Don't trust Social Media. They still claim ownership of everything posted on Facebook. the last I heard.... 21[2019-06-11 21:20:32] <@Owlhawk> Youtube, I am not knowledgable about 21[2019-06-11 21:20:39] <@Owlhawk> hi Beej 21[2019-06-11 21:21:13] <@Owlhawk> If you need help with meditation, we can give some help on this chat. 16[2019-06-11 21:21:15]  YouTube can more or less use your stuff as they see fit. 21[2019-06-11 21:21:31] <@Owlhawk> I don't use it, so have no knowledge of it 16[2019-06-11 21:22:12]  Well, my point was that if it was posted to YouTube. . .Facebook isn't far removed. And if it would be highly helpful to our members, it may be something worth considering 21[2019-06-11 21:22:38] <@Owlhawk> That's something I think for the Mothergrove to look at, 16[2019-06-11 21:23:00]  Well of course, I'm just saying this because you shot Taliesin2's idea down rather quickly with the ownership question 21[2019-06-11 21:23:25] <@Owlhawk> did I shoot it down, or point out issues with it? 16[2019-06-11 21:23:35]  You shot it down 21[2019-06-11 21:23:41] <@Owlhawk> I already mentioned my lack of knowledge about youtube 16[2019-06-11 21:23:57]  Aye 21[2019-06-11 21:24:08] <@Owlhawk> ADF videos and such, must remain the property of ADF. 16[2019-06-11 21:25:43]  Taliesin, I will see if we can post some on YouTube 21[2019-06-11 21:25:52] <@Owlhawk> We have a website for a reason, I totally agree with posting links to videos and such on the ADF website, but not on Facebook. 21[2019-06-11 21:26:20] <@Owlhawk> I mean posting links on Facebook leading to the ADF website....sorry 21[2019-06-11 21:26:30] <@Owlhawk> thinking faster then I can type 16[2019-06-11 21:26:40]  There may already be videos out there, I will have to look and see 16[2019-06-11 21:27:01]  The FB ownership isn't exclusive ownership, they can basically use your content as they see fit but don't have exclusive access 16[2019-06-11 21:27:13]  YouTube has similar policies 21[2019-06-11 21:29:07] <@Owlhawk> Well, as long as Drum is comfortable with it, as I'm sure he pays far more attention to that type of thing then I do, plus, he is the Archdruid after all! That has to count for somthing eventually! :) 16[2019-06-11 21:29:49]  I'm just saying, if you are trying to be consistent 16[2019-06-11 21:29:53]  We post videos on YouTube. I will look into content for meditation. Next topic 21[2019-06-11 21:30:14] <@Owlhawk> Oh, Rovena isn't feeling well tonight and wishes all attendees of the chat well 16[2019-06-11 21:30:25]  My best to Rovena 21[2019-06-11 21:30:33] <@Owlhawk> I forgot to mention that earlier 16[2019-06-11 21:30:38]  Let me know what you think of that link, Taliesin2 16[2019-06-11 21:31:03]  Will do Drum 16[2019-06-11 21:31:54]  Hope Rovena feels better soon 16[2019-06-11 21:32:04]  I did a search on adf.org on "guided meditation" 21[2019-06-11 21:33:03] <@Owlhawk> So do I. 16[2019-06-11 21:33:16]  Speaking of searches on the adf website... is there any word on getting a new search engine to do the crawl? And maybe tagging the pages better as they get updated for the new site? 16[2019-06-11 21:33:34]  That is part of the new website, currently in process 21[2019-06-11 21:33:48] <@Owlhawk> Conor, I will always challenge assumpations. I might not always disagree with you when I do challenge you.... 16[2019-06-11 21:33:54]  The current search...leaves a LOT to be desired 16[2019-06-11 21:33:54]  good to hear. Searching the adf site has been a 2 decade long hassle 16[2019-06-11 21:34:01]  oh I know! 21[2019-06-11 21:34:03] <@Owlhawk> lol 16[2019-06-11 21:35:06]  I need to step away for a few minutes. I'll be back 21[2019-06-11 21:36:06] <@Owlhawk> ok Drum. see you in a few minutes 21[2019-06-11 21:37:28] <@Owlhawk> so, anymore topics tonight? 16[2019-06-11 21:39:02]  I seem to have come in on the end of a topic... and the Dedicant's FB page has had discussion today that resulted in yet another go at a DP Discord channel. 21[2019-06-11 21:39:51] <@Owlhawk> We have a Discord channel? 16[2019-06-11 21:40:11]  Two that I know of... neither official, of course. 21[2019-06-11 21:40:32] <@Owlhawk> And you're really good at coming in at the end of a topic Beej, I'll try and remember to get the logs emailed this week, I've been forgetting since at least Yule.... 16[2019-06-11 21:40:49]  One is for the ADF Northwest folks... the other is hosted by the ADF Social Justice folks, but seems to have added channels for lots of other stuff like kin/guild/hearth/ DP chats 21[2019-06-11 21:41:17] <@Owlhawk> AFK for a few minutes. My wife needs some help with something 16[2019-06-11 21:41:23]  Hey, I'm glad I made it at all. Being Pacific time means I dont generally gen home from work until everyone is already pooped out and gone from here. 16[2019-06-11 21:44:05]  Oh hey Beej, whereabouts are you ? 16[2019-06-11 21:44:08]  I'm in the PNW 16[2019-06-11 21:44:14]  Las Vegas 16[2019-06-11 21:44:30]  That's a bit of a walk from Portland :)! 16[2019-06-11 21:44:46]  A tad, yes. ;) 16[2019-06-11 21:45:39]  Really, we'd fit better with the SW ADF folks both in environment and in reach, but NV got left whole instead of split like CA. 16[2019-06-11 21:48:30]  Interesting! Might be something to bring up to the member's advocate or similar 16[2019-06-11 21:48:35]  We'd welcome visitors, though. We have a semi-(mostly) permanent ritual space. 16[2019-06-11 21:50:40]  Mostly we just smile & shrug... and send out invites to both regions and be done with. 16[2019-06-11 21:55:15]  So... Summer solstice is a little over a week away. Any plans? Thoughts for who to celebrate? 21[2019-06-11 21:55:32] <@Owlhawk> ]I'm bck 21[2019-06-11 21:55:34] <@Owlhawk> back 27[2019-06-11 21:56:00] * ConorWarren (ConorWarren@sorcery-64sn2t.or.frontiernet.net) has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 16[2019-06-11 21:56:40]  Gonna go. Got work in the morning. Nite 21[2019-06-11 21:57:18] <@Owlhawk> . 21[2019-06-11 21:57:22] <@Owlhawk> \good night 16[2019-06-11 21:58:59]  Sorry. Had to go feed the tortoise banging on the back door. 21[2019-06-11 22:00:22] <@Owlhawk> I had to redo a surgical dressing. how's things Beej? 16[2019-06-11 22:01:54]  Doing ok. Better than you all if there are surgical dressings that need changed! 21[2019-06-11 22:02:08] <@Owlhawk> 27[2019-06-11 22:02:14] * Taliesin2 (shanesaylor@sorcery-hpgl2o.dc.cox.net) has quit IRC (Client exited) 21[2019-06-11 22:02:56] <@Owlhawk> Wife had minor surgery. I do the dressings 6 days a week, nurse comes on the other day. 21[2019-06-11 22:03:34] <@Owlhawk> an Abcess/ingrown hair in an awkward spot. easy to deal with, not fun to dicsuss 16[2019-06-11 22:03:39]  Hopefully she heals soon! 21[2019-06-11 22:03:48] <@Owlhawk> Thank you! 16[2019-06-11 22:04:19]  Oh, yeah, that's right, it's ADF IRC day! 16[2019-06-11 22:04:35]  :) 16[2019-06-11 22:04:46]  OK, I see I have some scrollback to read.... 21[2019-06-11 22:05:29] <@Owlhawk> HI MOUSE!!!! 27[2019-06-11 22:06:30] * Drum (Drum@sorcery-k25.mvm.241.72.IP) has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 16[2019-06-11 22:07:54]  Just up and quit. lol 21[2019-06-11 22:09:27] <@Owlhawk> he said eariler he might have to, it's a standing statement from him due to his job 16[2019-06-11 22:11:06]  He said he was AFK. I know. Just making a small joke about how the client announced his leaving. 21[2019-06-11 22:11:13] <@Owlhawk> lol 18[2019-06-11 22:11:56]  Hi Owlhawk! 16[2019-06-11 22:12:10]  OK, caught up, read (or at least skimmed) scrollback. 21[2019-06-11 22:12:25] <@Owlhawk> how are you Mouse, how was Three Rivers? 16[2019-06-11 22:12:55]  I am slightly sun-scorched and mosquito-bitten. Three Rivers was mostly good - except for the sun-scorching and mosquito-biting. :-) 16[2019-06-11 22:13:09]  The Brighid ritual was nothing short of awesome. 16[2019-06-11 22:13:59]  Er, sorry. Not mosquitos. Vampire sky unicorns. :-) 16[2019-06-11 22:14:14]  It's nice to see more of the more permanent shrines and statues going up. 21[2019-06-11 22:14:28] <@Owlhawk> lol, that's normal for the Knoll. Drum mentioned the Brigihid ritual was amazing. but no details, I'll talk to Chelly before Game this Sunday abhout it. 16[2019-06-11 22:14:40]  The bardic evening was also good. I was one of the judges this year, and it was not an easy judgement to make. 16[2019-06-11 22:15:08]  T 16[2019-06-11 22:15:24]  I doubt there was anyone present who didn't cry at the Bridget ritual. 16[2019-06-11 22:15:42]  I know I certainly did. 21[2019-06-11 22:15:58] <@Owlhawk> Beej, Raven's Knoll has several permanent shrines on the land, many Heathen, some Celtic/Druidic some for things we havent thought of before the shrine was raised. Raven's Knoll IS SACRED LAND. 21[2019-06-11 22:16:30] <@Owlhawk> That's awesome Mouse. I so wish I could have been there 16[2019-06-11 22:16:51]  :) But there are very few such places. So all permanent shrines are a good thing no matter where they get built. 18[2019-06-11 22:17:03]  It is, Owlhawk. That place has had so many people do so many holy things there, the whole place feels sacred. 21[2019-06-11 22:17:20] <@Owlhawk> THey most definitly are Beej, another one in Ontario is Mythwood 21[2019-06-11 22:18:08] <@Owlhawk> And Loki and Dionysus have been invoked on the land more then once, and invoked properly! 21[2019-06-11 22:18:42] <@Owlhawk> invoked on Raven's Knoll that is. 16[2019-06-11 22:18:53]  (Yes, that's what I took "the land" to mean.) 16[2019-06-11 22:20:01]  I just wish I had had the time and foresight to prepare something for the barid.c 16[2019-06-11 22:20:05]  ...the bardic. 16[2019-06-11 22:20:18]  Am I to understand that it's a pan-pagan place as opposed to an ADF place? (and yes, I assumed 'the land' meant 'that land') 16[2019-06-11 22:20:26]  Yes, Beej, it is. 16[2019-06-11 22:20:47]  Most of the pagan paths have been represented in events there. 16[2019-06-11 22:21:37]  So kind of like Brushwood and Tredara. gotcha. 16[2019-06-11 22:21:48]  Possibly; I don't know them well enough to comment on that. :) 16[2019-06-11 22:22:45]  Permanent places where pagans gather for various rituals and celebrations, including permanent ritual spaces and permanent shrines. 16[2019-06-11 22:23:14]  As opposed to CLG which is an ADF church site dedicated specifically to ADF practice. 16[2019-06-11 22:23:34]  Sounds like the Knoll, yes. It's also a campground when there's no conflict with events --but it's not a very good place for the non-pagan-tolerant to pick for camping. :) 16[2019-06-11 22:24:01]  Yes. We discussed moving Three Rivers to Thornhaven land, which _would_ be specifically ADF, as I understand it. 16[2019-06-11 22:24:11]  Brushwood is also a campground. Not sure about Tredara. 16[2019-06-11 22:24:44]  They allow camping for events, but I'm not sure about a broader camping arrangement at Tredara. 16[2019-06-11 22:25:09]  That would be exciting, Mouse. 16[2019-06-11 22:26:18]  We're hoping to have a permanent facility to move to in the next year or so.. depending on if the trust happens or not. WE'd have to rent a major truck and hoist/crane to move all the shrines 16[2019-06-11 22:26:36]  I think it would be good from the point of view of people getting there; there are few people who would have to travel for much longer, and a significant number for whom Thornhaven is significantly closer than RK. 16[2019-06-11 22:27:54]  Of course, travel time is not the only consideration. 16[2019-06-11 22:27:56]  So it'd kind of balance out in the way of convenience. 16[2019-06-11 22:28:21]  Well, Oshawa is a longer travel in distance but a shorter travel in time, because more of the trip is on high-speed highways. 16[2019-06-11 22:28:35]  Almost everyone else relevant is closer in both distance and time. 16[2019-06-11 22:28:48]  (Oshawa is where Dancing Lights is.) 16[2019-06-11 22:29:35]  (That is, Oshawa-to-Thornhaven is further but quicker than Oshawa-to-RK.) 16[2019-06-11 22:30:35]  So then it becomes a gas mileage to time consideration. 16[2019-06-11 22:30:58]  Oh, and, who was asking why we meditate? Personally, I meditate for at least two purposes: (1) to reground and recenter; (2) to contact the nonphysical world. 16[2019-06-11 22:31:36]  Yes; it Thornhaven probably costs a little more in fuel than the Knoll, from Oshawa. I don't know how much difference that makes to the DL people. 16[2019-06-11 22:32:29]  Time will tell, I imagine. I think the mediation conversation is the one I came in on the end of. 16[2019-06-11 22:38:41]  "He thought he saw an Albatross / That fluttered 'round the lamp: / He looked again, and found it was / A penny postage-stamp. ``You'd best be getting home,'' he said, / ``The nights are very damp!''" 16[2019-06-11 22:38:56]  Heh. I missed a / in that./ 16[2019-06-11 22:39:56]  Clever 16[2019-06-11 22:40:00]  He thought he saw a Rattlesnake / That questioned him in Greek: / He looked again, and found it as / The Middle of Next Week. / ``The one thing I regret,'' he said, / ``Is that it cannot speak!'' 16[2019-06-11 22:40:45]  He thought he saw a Buffalo / Upon the chimney-piece: / He looked again, and found it was / His Sister's Husband's Niece. / ``Unless you leave this house,'' he said, / ``I'll send for the Police!'' 16[2019-06-11 22:40:56]  (Yes, I like Lewis Carroll's work. :) 16[2019-06-11 22:41:31]  Well, that'd be why it sounded familiar! 16[2019-06-11 22:42:14]  He thought he saw an Argument / That proved he was the Pope: / He looked again, and found it was / A Bar of Mottled Soap. / ``A fact so dread,'' he faintly said, / ``Extinguishes all hope!'' 21[2019-06-11 22:42:27] <@Owlhawk> back. Mom is now in a good mood! 16[2019-06-11 22:42:35]  Excellent! ^_^ 16[2019-06-11 22:42:48]  Hurrah! 21[2019-06-11 22:44:34] <@Owlhawk> Raven's Knoll is broader then the mentioned adf sites. 21[2019-06-11 22:44:44] <@Owlhawk> Back, Mom happy again 16[2019-06-11 22:45:32]  Broader... in what sense? 16[2019-06-11 22:46:03]  He thought he saw a crowd of geeks / Chattering on IRC: / He looked again, and found it was / A pool of rodent pee. / ``I see no difference,'' he said, / ``Neither one's of use to me!'' 27[2019-06-11 22:46:13] * StarQuake (Sol@sorcery-bsu.tna.56.172.IP) has quit IRC (Connection closed) 25[2019-06-11 22:46:18] * StarQuake (Sol@sorcery-bsu.tna.56.172.IP) joins #adf 16[2019-06-11 22:46:29]  Oh dear, I scared off StarQuake...oh, I guess I didn't. Good. 16[2019-06-11 22:47:31]  lol 16[2019-06-11 22:48:00]  Hello sorry about that, I work Tuesday nights now so work gets busy. I still leave IRC on so I can read what happened in chat 16[2019-06-11 22:48:45]  Like me riffing on Lewis Carroll...I suppose that's of pretty minimal relevance to things ADF, so I suppose I should take it elsechannel. Unless I can come up with a relevant one.... 16[2019-06-11 22:48:46]  Hmm. 16[2019-06-11 22:48:49]  No worries. Glad to see you could pop in. 21[2019-06-11 22:48:56] <@Owlhawk> ADF fest sites, that I know of, cater to ADF. Raven's Knoll if for the broader pagan community as a whole]\ 16[2019-06-11 22:49:45]  Brushwood was never an ADF site. One of it's owners was an ADF member for a while and Wellspring was held there for a long period of time, but it was definitely a pan-pagan camping/festival facility. 16[2019-06-11 22:50:24]  Matter of fact, the only ADF only festival site I can think of is Tredara - and even there, they are holding pan-pagan events outside of ADF. 16[2019-06-11 22:50:56]  Thanks Beej 16[2019-06-11 22:51:30]  I _think_ Thornhaven was speaking of hosting non-ADF events, though the plan as I understand it was for the land to be eventually handed over to ADF Canada, once there is an ADF Canada to hand it over to. 16[2019-06-11 22:51:36]  Summerlands is held at a summer camp they rent. Trillium is held at a state campground. 8 Winds is likewise at a regular campground. 16[2019-06-11 22:52:06]  I'm kind of surprised ADF Canada still hasn't happened. 16[2019-06-11 22:52:43]  It seems like it's been ages since the actions for that were started 16[2019-06-11 22:53:02]  It has been. There was talk of ADF Canada back in '99 when I was first involved with Silver Fox in Montreal. 21[2019-06-11 22:53:16] <@Owlhawk> the legal issues to overcome to make it happen are absolutely insane 18[2019-06-11 22:54:16]  What Owlhawk said. We had one person who has made legal existence happen for assorted other nonprofits speak to the legal issues in question. It is Byzantine. 16[2019-06-11 22:54:28]  I had gathered. But I didn't realize it still hadn't been managed. ADF Canada is kind of a first step for the rest of the groves of the world outside the USA. 16[2019-06-11 22:54:46]  Well hopefully we will expand and have more gatherings in all the regions, even if they are “informal” 16[2019-06-11 22:54:53]  IIRC there are more ADF members in Canada than in the whole non-USA-and-Canada world put together. 16[2019-06-11 22:55:00]  And Beej, what about the two DP channels on discord, how did you find about those 16[2019-06-11 22:56:03]  StarQuake, are you on the secret DP Facebook group? There was an invite posted today to a newer Discord DP chat channel that's part of someone else's informal ADF discord server. 16[2019-06-11 22:56:21]  Let me check 16[2019-06-11 22:56:23]  The previous DP discord server seems to have vanished while my back was turned. or something. 16[2019-06-11 22:57:24]  I just happened to notice today that I was down from 6 servers to 4 and had to figure out what was missing. The Dp was one of them. 16[2019-06-11 22:58:10]  OK, here's an ADF-related one: 16[2019-06-11 22:58:13]  He thought he saw a ritual / To Bergelmir and Frey: / He looked again, and found it was / An empty bowl of clay. / ``I know not which of those,'' he said, / ``I have less need of this day.'' 16[2019-06-11 22:59:28]  Hmm.... that one's almost too logical! 16[2019-06-11 22:59:47]  Yeah, I'm not really happy with the last two lines. 27[2019-06-11 23:00:23] * StarQuake (Sol@sorcery-bsu.tna.56.172.IP) has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)