*** Opened channel log for #ADF at 2017-02-21 7:12:39 PM [19:12] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-2bv46v.cable.rogers.com) has joined #ADF [19:12] *** ChanServ has changed the topic on #ADF to "Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org" [19:12] *** Mode change [+r] on #ADF by ChanServ [19:26] *** Ben (Mibbit@sorcery-aka0vo.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #ADF [19:27] *** Ben is now known as Guest6760 [19:28] *** Guest6760 (Mibbit@sorcery-aka0vo.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [19:28] *** Tiber (Mibbit@sorcery-aka0vo.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #ADF [19:37] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [19:37] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [19:51] *** Sister-Spiral (Mibbit@sorcery-b5c915.dsl.airstreamcomm.net) has joined #ADF [19:52] Hello! [19:52] Hello Sister-Spiral [19:52] How are you tonight? [19:54] Hello Rovena, I'm doing alright, and yourself? [19:55] Okay. Had a bad scare. [19:55] Oh no. Glad it was just a scare, and not more serious. [19:55] Cat jumped on a bookcase knocking it over almost hitting the dog [19:56] Tomorrow we are buying the brackets to secure the bookcase to the wall [19:57] Oh wow, that would have been scary. Glad everyone is ok. Cats are seriously only just barely tame, I think. Mine go feral as soon as they realize I've run out of cat food. [19:58] BoomBoom just loves to climb so jumping from the bed onto the bookcase is natural. [19:58] [Owlhawk] Cats are evil, meowing Daemons from the depths of Tartarus! [19:59] Greetings all [19:59] Hello Tiber [19:59] First time here [19:59] Our youngest Lemmy likes to try to climb the screens. [19:59] Blondie will get you Owlhawk [19:59] Hello Owlhawk and Rovena. [19:59] Tiber, I hope you will enjoy yourself [20:00] [Owlhawk] Only if she comes back to the room before this part is off the screen! [20:00] [Owlhawk] Hello [20:00] Doh! Hello Tiber! [20:01] Thanks, I joined ADF in 2004 and was active for a couple of years. I've been away for some time but am happy to be back. [20:01] *** Dale (guest@sorcery-kc6tfq.res.rr.com) has joined #ADF [20:02] Good evening [20:02] Hello Dale. :) [20:02] Hello Dale [20:03] How is everybody this evening? [20:04] Surviving [20:04] My daughter is cheating me at cards/ [20:05] Oh no! Is she good at it? [20:05] [Owlhawk] We hit 8C today and are supposed to hit 15C tomorrow....something is definitely wrong with this picture [20:06] [Owlhawk] Teach her poker [20:06] It is disturbingly warm in Milwaukee [20:06] Well, she's 4 so she's making the rules up as she goes...lol. [20:06] Yes. It hit 99F in Okhaloma a couple weeks ago. [20:06] She would be a natural for poker than [20:06] Hi Tiber. I’ll be in Milwaukee this weekend for a bit. [20:06] [Owlhawk] I'm in Ontario....we normally are -20C or lower in feburary [20:06] It's really unseasonably warm here on the other side of Wisconsin too. [20:07] [Owlhawk] We got rain today...i don' [20:07] It was in the 70s here in NW Louisiana [20:07] [Owlhawk] t remember the last time we had rain instead of snow at this point in Winter. [20:07] She would be, and if I were at all good at playing cards I would have her playing....lol. Card games are not my strong point. [20:08] How far off normal is that for you Rovena? [20:08] Cards were a big part of my paternal family [20:08] About 20 degrees. Should be in the 50s [20:10] We're normally in the 20's and maybe the 30's and it's in the 60's here. [20:11] Oh! I applied for membership. [20:11] [Owlhawk] Note folks that I'm not using farenheit, I'm using Celsius for temperture [20:11] [Owlhawk] good for you, welcome aboard [20:11] Sorry to say that they are calling for snow and temps in the 30's by weekend, Dale [20:11] Thank you. What part of Canada did you say you were in again? [20:11] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [20:12] [Owlhawk] I'm in southern Ontario, on the southern tip of Georgian Bay, also known as the snow belt [20:13] [Owlhawk] And the asshole of the Elephant. [20:14] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [20:14] *** Ren (Mibbit@sorcery-g74a5p.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #ADF [20:14] That’s good enough for me. I don’t care for the cold, but it’s less scary than summer temperatures in February. [20:14] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [20:14] [Owlhawk] And Rovena, the scren has scrolled far enough that Blondie won't see anything! [20:14] *** Linkus (holoirc@sorcery-jh4rnj.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #ADF [20:14] lol Now that's a phrase I don't think I've ever heard. [20:15] *** Drum (Mibbit@sorcery-iuh9eo.buckeyecom.net) has joined #ADF [20:15] You are lucky [20:15] Hello Drum [20:15] Hello :) [20:15] Hi Drum [20:15] well no one here is complaining--it's been a cold couple of months so the reprieve is much appreicated [20:15] Hello Drum. [20:15] Hi all!@ [20:15] [Owlhawk] if you position the map of ontario just right, it shows the shape of an elephant, my city is right at the asshole of that elephant it shows [20:15] [Owlhawk] Hi Drum [20:16] Owlhawk, I am going to have to get a map, just to do that. [20:16] Interest geography [20:16] Just got off work, hope I'm not late~ [20:16] Hi Ren. :) [20:17] Hello! [20:17] There's always room for one more [20:17] No one is ever late [20:17] [Owlhawk] it's not well known outside of southern Ontario, and we all laugh at it [20:17] [Owlhawk] it took me a very long time to see it [20:18] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [20:18] lol [20:18] Rovena If that's a Gandalf reference pertaining to wizards then, have a cookie [20:20] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [20:20] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [20:20] [Owlhawk] Rovena, I am very lucky some days. [20:21] Probably every day you wake up next to Blondie [20:21] [Owlhawk] This is true. [20:25] So what do people want to talk about? [20:26] DP? [20:26] Devotionals? [20:26] The map of Ontario? [20:26] [Owlhawk] So, we've got real quiet here....so, for a topic of the utmost importantce, Star Wars, The Last Jedi, discuss! [20:27] So, what states or provinces are folks located in? [20:27] If you care to tell [20:27] I'll bite, NJ [20:27] I'm in West Central Wisconsin. [20:27] NW Louisiana [20:28] Milwaukee: the good land [20:28] North East Wisconsin. [20:28] Ohio [20:28] Ettrick here...population 529. It's a village, I don't think I'm the idiot...but I could be wrong. [20:29] :P [20:29] How many people normally come to Tuesday chat nights? [20:29] I am sure you are not [20:29] About this many [20:29] Lot's of folks from Wisconsin, excellent! [20:29] [Owlhawk] numbers bounce between me and Rovena and 20 to 30 on real busy nights [20:30] Are you folks Solitary or with a Grove? [20:30] oh that's good. I'll have to look up how many people are in ADF. Gotta pump these numbers up~ [20:30] Or just curious? [20:30] We have about 1400ish people [20:31] I just applied for membership this week...and Solitary. The closest grove to me is 3+ hours East or West of me. [20:31] Welcome! [20:31] Thank you. [20:31] I’m the protogrove to the east of you…well, me and a few others :) [20:32] :) [20:32] New to ADF, previously solitairy but looking for the human connection. Just looked into groves today but I'm hesitant [20:32] Well, you will find the folks here to me very helpful [20:32] Our protogrove jsut became a grove [20:32] to be [20:32] Yay! [20:32] Well deserved, Rovena [20:32] Ren, why are you hesitant, if you don’t mind sharing? [20:32] Over in Appleton? [20:33] Congrats Rovena! [20:33] Yep, Appleton. [20:33] Cool. [20:33] I used to be part of a very active grove, but since moving to Wisconsin it's been hard to connect. The closest groves for me are in Appleton or Chicago, either is a two hour drive [20:33] Before joining druidry I was pushed towards Wicca and didn't feel comfortable with it. I did adopt the Pagan umbrella though, so some good came of it [20:34] Solitary out north of Seattle. I like the idea of a community to talk to (hence being on here), but I like practicing alone. [20:34] There is another solitaire in Kenosha--he and I are hoping to get together at some point [20:35] [Owlhawk] Speaking as a solitary, Groves are awesome, I've been to 2 or 3 grove rituals over the years I've been a member. However I have found that working as a solitary in ADF is definitely a viable path [20:35] It's actually really nice to have so much support and good news going around [20:35] I was solitary for 20 years before joining a grove, but now, years later, I am solitary again [20:36] We only have a handfull of people in the protogrove. Appleton is kind of saturated with pagan stuff. There are 2 OBOD seed groups, a few Wiccan covens, Pagan Pride organization. It’s has been difficult for me to find peole who haven’t already committed time or interest elsewhere. I’m also not great at PR and finding people. [20:36] @Drum, did you enjoy the Grove, or are you happier solitary? [20:37] I did enjoy the Grove, but I practiced solitary a lot [20:37] *more (false binary, sorry) [20:37] What's weird is the Pagan circles I was in badmouthed OBOD of which ADF is related so it took a long time to say- screw it, I'm signing up [20:37] We use to have a protogrove in La Crosse, but that was a long time ago, and I wasn't ready for ADF at the time. [20:37] Well, OBOD is kind of a cousin of sorts [20:38] We are all Druids [20:38] But we are glad to have you with us :) [20:39] I spent Imbolc with the folks at Circle Sanctuary, for those in Wisco. We had a nice eclectic group of pagans, but the rituals definitely skewed Wiccan. Not a bad way to spend a day, but it wasn't Druid [20:39] Ren. There is a difference between an ADF grove and a Wiccan coven, from my perspective at least, and Drum should be able to confirm it. Wiccan covens are almsot always closed very close working groups. Groves are more open, especially since all our high-day rituals are open to the public, and there is less of a magical working focus. [20:39] Yep, that is one key difference [20:40] [Owlhawk] Much less of a magical focus [20:40] Our open rituals are one of our hallmarks [20:40] I'm definitely seeing the differences and really liking what I see. It's a very needed breath of fresh air, so thank you everyone xD [20:40] Yay! [20:40] ADF also respects the individual. [20:40] Drum. We’ve had a few of the OBOD people show up to our high-day rituals, but it varies. [20:40] [Owlhawk] We do our best [20:40] Do you feel like the structure provided by ADF has enhanced your personal magical workings? [20:41] It has for me [20:41] Some folks are into magic, others are not [20:41] it is a personal choice [20:41] Of course. [20:41] Random note: if I type a persons name does that automatically make it green? Is there an etiquette to calling on a specific person? [20:41] the "workings" part of ritual allows a place for more magical workings [20:41] ADF offers so many study programs that allows people to follow their interests [20:42] I am not sure, Ren! [20:42] Different programs do things differently [20:42] [Owlhawk] type the name where Ren? [20:42] Opening the Gates, Hallowing the Waters, and taking the omen, are all magical workings [20:42] Ren, the colors are all based on the IRC client or web program that each person uses. For me, my client hilights lines that my name is mentioned in. [20:42] I see it does this automatically (I assume) That's all, only asking [20:42] Ohhhh [20:43] [Owlhawk] ah. yeah, that's an individual program thing. only people that can affect people in that way in the chat are Rovena and myself [20:43] Taking the Omen? [20:44] [Owlhawk] Anytime you are using energy to seek a desired result, you are using magic in some manner or form [20:44] Drum, funny that you mention those as magical, as I typically haven’t seen them that way. Your statement echos what one of my OBOD friends said about those areas. I see them as more spiritual and less magical…though I think I’m splitting hairs as I haven’t been interested in the magical side of paganism…which made me feel a bit like a second-class Wiccan, when I was folloing that path. [20:44] Sister-Spiral- taking the Omen is foretelling the future or like Tarot reading for the future energy [20:45] [Owlhawk] I would say that Taking the Omen is a magical working. [20:45] So maybe they'll read the ogham or tarot or just sit and listen for a sign [20:45] Oh, thank you for clarifying. [20:45] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [20:46] [Owlhawk] Especially since you are doing so in sacred space in the presence,, and with the support of the Kindreds. [20:46] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [20:46] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [20:46] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [20:46] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [20:46] Dale, you are of course entitled to your opinion [20:46] [Owlhawk] Dale, I think part of what you mention might depend on how you define magic [20:47] Ok, there are definitely new terms for me to learn. [20:47] [Owlhawk] Spiritual can be magical at the same time as it is spiritual [20:48] [Owlhawk] Which terms Spiral? [20:48] re: magic...I am fond of Margot Adler's definition in Drawing Down the Moon. She makes it sound quite natural and almost logical, as opposed to something supernatural [20:49] [Owlhawk] that ones not bad, although it's been a decade or two since I read it last. I still like Crowley's definition of magic [20:49] I like Arthur C. Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Basically I file anything I don't understand under "magic" until it is proven to be science. It's broad but concise [20:49] I should probably conceide that they really are magical…and I’m not particularly sure why I have a resistance to accepting that. [20:49] Well, Kindreds would be one. When you say that is it an all encompassing term for Ancestors, spiritual beings, etc? or Is it something a bit more specific? [20:49] [Owlhawk] in that vein, keep an eye on Quantum Physics. [20:50] ancestors, nature spirits, and shining ones [20:50] It's been a long time since I read Crowely, but Adler's description definitely takes into account his idea of the will [20:50] [Owlhawk] AFK to help Blondie with something [20:51] Here's something that took a lot longer than it should have to accept- science isn't exact. There's a ton of wiggle room and many words can define the same object. Think of the body, we have a name for each bone, for groupings of bones, for ligaments over the bones, muscle groups, going up we make a whole arm, a whole head, a digestive tract, a whole human et [20:52] *** Linkus (holoirc@sorcery-jh4rnj.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has quit IRC [Client exited] [20:52] Thank you, Drum. Funny, I began calling to those very beings individually a handful of years ago. [20:52] :) [20:52] :) [20:52] We have three realms: Land, Sea, and Sky [20:52] We have three hallows: Well, Tree, and Fire [20:53] WE have three Kindreds: Ancestors, Nature Spirits, and Shining Ones [20:53] Drum if you zoom out the scope on the Kindreds, would they be filed under magical beings? [20:54] Shining Ones, for sure [20:54] Those components are somewhat new to me. I was introduced to paganism via a short winding road that lead to Wicca, and then I ventured off on my own. Mostly, I've worked very intuitively and pretty free form with the due respect to those on the other side of the Veil. [20:57] [Owlhawk] back [20:57] Welcome back. [20:57] [Owlhawk] Drum, Rovena, Blondie says hello to you both [20:57] We all form our own relationships with the members of the 3 Kindreds [20:58] Hello Blondie! [20:58] Hello! [20:58] [Owlhawk] She's off to a bubble bath. Snowball is nosing bubbles.... [20:58] Shall we talk about the Well? [20:59] [Owlhawk] good topic [20:59] The well, once the gates are open, becomes a portal to the Ancestors [20:59] *** JamieGoodwin (jamiegoodwi@sorcery-1gcv1i.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) has joined #ADF [20:59] Hello Jamie [20:59] [Owlhawk] hi Jamie [21:00] The Ancestors are the ancestors of the blood (our blood kin), ancestors of the heart or hearth (those we admire or those we find a kinship to through our hearths), and ancestors of the bone (those who were on this land before us) [21:00] Sorry, I needed to help my daughter for a moment. I was reading along as you spoke though. :) [21:00] They offer us insight and experiences that they had when they were a part of this world [21:01] [Owlhawk] I would add Heroes to that list, but I suspect that they would fit in to one of those descriptions. In Hellenic Heroes get their own cult [21:01] I would put them in with hearth or heart [21:01] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [21:01] But these are a recommendation and not dogma [21:02] [Owlhawk] definitely. it also depends on the hearth culture as well I think [21:02] Right [21:04] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [21:04] [Owlhawk] and also, how much altar space you have available! [21:04] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [21:04] :) [21:04] [Owlhawk] ;) [21:05] And maybe the insanity of the cats you share space with? [21:05] [Owlhawk] So, now that we've diverged a bit, imagine that around here..... where were we ging with this? [21:06] My cat leaves my altar alone :) [21:06] Most of my do but not BoomBomm [21:06] It's been nice chatting with y'all. I have to take off, but have a good night. If any of the Wisco folks want to connect, my contact info is in the members section. #3311 [21:06] [Owlhawk] Nah, I've had good luck with cats and altars. At one point we had 5 cats, now down to one, and only on ever got on the altar and that was only one time [21:06] We were talking about the Kindreds [21:07] Smart cat! I have crazy cats. I did have a cat who parked his mutinous butt in the middle of every crystal grid or altar I tried to make. [21:07] [Owlhawk] So, that covers Ancestors to peoples satisfaction, pipe up if it doesn't, then Nature Spirits next? [21:07] poor Drum. Trying so hard to keep us on track [21:07] [Owlhawk] Get him talking mead making. solves that beautifully! [21:07] It is like herding cats [21:08] It is ok, Ren, we have time :) [21:08] It does. :) [21:08] *** Tiber (Mibbit@sorcery-aka0vo.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:11] WE also hope that what we discuss here serves as a springboard for further research and more discussion later [21:12] of course. :) [21:12] If you have questions, you can always contact me directly [21:12] I luckily have a room that is dedicated to our altar, and pagan books. Which is good as my cats wouldn’t leave an altar alone otherwise. [21:12] lol [21:12] [Owlhawk] And plese, bring you questions back to here to spur further discussion [21:12] [Owlhawk] lol [21:13] That is awesome, Dale. An altar room is so nice [21:13] An altar room does sound nice [21:13] Of course. I am enjoying the chance for interaction. :) [21:13] Seconded ^ [21:13] That is what these chats are for :) [21:14] [Owlhawk] blondie and I are discussing turning the small third bedroom into my altar room/mead room [21:14] Cool. Hubby is close to having my office/altar room done. [21:14] [Owlhawk] Definitely Drum. and it's why we continue to have them every week [21:14] And I thank you for that [21:14] It used to be my daughter’s bedroom, but it was too small to be a real bedroom. We moved her into the room we used as an office, and redecorated her as an altar room and put our computer desk and filing cabinets into the master bedroom. Priorities :) Now we have a nice peacefull place to meditate and do devitionals. [21:15] I have incidental altars throughout the house, places where an altar or altar-like place is found [21:15] I like that, Dale, a LOT [21:16] [Owlhawk] if we're going to start with thank yous, then thank you Drum for aiming me at the chat quite a few years ago....it's all your fault [21:16] [Owlhawk] ! [21:16] [Owlhawk] nice idea Dale. it's similar to ours, minus the child to move [21:16] Owlhawk, thank YOU [21:16] Drum, I’m still thinking about putting Carnelian’s stones on each side of the entrance door, to symbolize walking thorugh fire. I got the idea from the talk you gave at Summerland. [21:17] :) [21:17] Dale, I am humbled. I like the idea of purification when you come into a room [21:17] It helps set the tone [21:17] [Owlhawk] I'm guessing you focus on that image as you enter? [21:18] I feel that the stones act like a soft barrier and when I walk through it I am purified [21:18] [Owlhawk] ok [21:18] That is a really beautiful idea. I like that a lot. [21:19] Carnelian, red jasper, and red stone could do [21:19] It is hard to have two flames going all the time [21:19] Especially with a cat ;) [21:20] [Owlhawk] lol [21:20] or 3 [21:20] lol [21:21] [Owlhawk] when we had 5 the only problem I had was two of them trying to join in during ritual. Once I made a bit of space for them it wasn't much of a problem, aside from the occasional demand for scratches [21:21] My experience is that animals are attracted to ritual or to what is going on in ritual [21:22] [Owlhawk] definitely agree. [21:22] Agreed [21:22] Mine loved the altar cloth. . . Got a second one, put it on the other side table and that solved all the problems [21:22] [Owlhawk] Especially if you're offering milk and honey, as you in the DEO rituals.... [21:22] I’ve been making candles for Imbolc the past two years. A tripple wick one for the altar and votives to hand out to the ritual participants. One of my friends uses nouveau candles (7 day prayer candles) that are supposed to burn continiously. I can’t imagine leaving a candle burning unattended for that long in my house. Even my normally closed off altar room. [21:22] I have photos and mementos of my Ancestors on my Ancestor Altar, including my grandmother, my pets, and Isaac [21:23] Agreed, Daqle [21:23] Dale, sorry [21:23] I like the idea of making your own candles Dale, very inspiring [21:23] Yes! [21:23] [Owlhawk] if you have a wood stove, then the constantly burning candle becomes much less hair raisting [21:24] [Owlhawk] yes, it sounds fantastic if you can do it [21:26] I have a pretty substantial space that I intend on creating ritual space within. It's going to be sort of a mix, office/library/working/ritual space. I hate to do it, but I think I'm going to need some way to close it off for ritual and devotionals. [21:26] Basic candle making hasn’t been to difficult. I want to do more, but not sure where to progress to. This year, instead of making a traditional three wick candle, I made three pillar candles of differing heights and grouped them together. They were also handed out to the ritual participants. I liked the tripple wick candle I made, but I don’t burn them long enough to allow them to burn properly. [21:27] [Owlhawk] that depends on your situation living wise, ie room mates, only a SO etc [21:27] I like the idea of people taking something home, Dale [21:28] Do you ever teach people how to make candles? [21:29] [Owlhawk] that is a great part of his ritual I think. [21:29] Drum, it has been nice. The idea to give gifts out to the participants was from Laura, one of our other grove members. [21:30] :) [21:30] Laura helped with last year’s Imbolc candles, and this year the tripple pillars were made at the protogrove’s craft-day, and I made the votives throughout the week. [21:32] Dale. do you post craft-days on your schedule? Finances and circumstances permitting, I would drive out to Appleton to join in. [21:35] Sister-Spiral, they have been ad-hoc so far, but I can let you know when we schedule them. We also have a google calendar that we have our high-days and business meetings on (http://www.whisperingspirits.org/protogrove-calendar/)) [21:35] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [21:36] Thank you. [21:36] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [21:36] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [21:38] Here's a possibly quick question- what's your thoughts on Minimalism, on owning less material goods? Paganism seems very materialistic (for good reason) but I'd like to hear thoughts on it [21:38] I teach a workshop called "Incidental Altars" that works with materials we can find "in the wild" so to speak [21:38] Minimalism works just fine within the realms of Paganism. [21:39] That sounds perfect Drum. [21:39] Your greatest tool is your mind. [21:39] Drum, that sounds like a really interesting class to someone who ventures off into the woods at the drop of a hat. [21:39] Spiral- I'm only speaking from my experience, what I've seen [21:39] Exactly, Rovena [21:40] so many intro books have "go get this, buy that, make these" or people showing off their items during get togethers (bragging basically) [21:40] Ren, of course. There are a lot of tools and what not, but when it comes down to it,...what's important is how you work with the energies you're working with. [21:41] [Owlhawk] Drum give some interesting workshops [21:41] I think a person can do many, many things with just a little, and for others they need more [21:41] I'm asking in the first place because I didn't really agree with the stuff centered lessons. This is very exciting, to think about things in a different way [21:42] Ren, I've seen the same. It's a really good question. [21:42] I was able to do a lot of work in the various study programs by using the library loan program [21:42] thereby not needing to buy the books [21:43] Would I like all those books? Maybe, but I like just enough books, if that makes sense [21:43] That's a really good option, Drum. [21:43] [Owlhawk] and borrowing the books just means that you need to take really good notes [21:44] oh yes, makes a lot of sense. I started at the library, picked up about five extra books not at the library, gave away four, kept the nice one [21:44] Be right back. My pixie is unleashing her inner trickster on her brothers. [21:44] [Owlhawk] lol. good luck.... [21:44] *** Strongbear (Mibbit@sorcery-23khhv.client.bresnan.net) has joined #ADF [21:45] [Owlhawk] hello Strongbear [21:45] Hello Strongbear [21:45] HELLO, SORRY i AM LATE [21:45] and yelling, :( [21:45] Hello, Strongbear [21:45] Hello! [21:45] Hi! [21:46] hello to you all, what did I miss? [21:47] [Owlhawk] The log will get posted some time after I remember to email it to the webmaster....I have november logs to send.... [21:47] i was wondering if I would be able to join the chat late, I usually do not get home until late on Tuesdays [21:48] [Owlhawk] we've been disscusing the kindreds amongst other topics [21:48] [Owlhawk] some nights we end at 9. some nights at midnight. it all depends on the participants [21:49] 9 central time? [21:49] I am still working through my DP, again. [21:50] [Owlhawk] 8:00 EST [21:51] [Owlhawk] each tuesday. Also there is a european chat sunday afternoons at 2EST...I think that [21:51] [Owlhawk] ' [21:51] [Owlhawk] that's the right time.... [21:51] [Owlhawk] how [21:51] good to know [21:51] [Owlhawk] how's that going Strongbear? [21:51] Yes that is the correct time [21:52] I have the "academic" parts done, it is the experiential parts ( nature awareness, mental practice) that I am slacking on. [21:52] [Owlhawk] The european one i generally manage to miss for various reasons that change from week to week [21:53] [Owlhawk] those are the ones that are the difficult aspects [21:53] well, I kind of kept adding food to my plate- started school, moved into a house. [21:53] It took me 3 attempts to get the Mental Dicipline section done. Life would get busy and I’d miss a week and have to start over. [21:54] [Owlhawk] ouch. I managed to get that one finished in one attempt. My wife was a great help in doing so [21:54] your opinion? I have been toying with the idea of trying self hypnosis to get into the altered state of consciousness- then moving into the 2 powers, etc [21:54] [Owlhawk] Strongbear, that will not help you in the DP [21:55] [Owlhawk] no. [21:55] [Owlhawk] Self hypnosis has nothing to do with meditative trance. it is a suggestive state of mind, not an altered state of mind. [21:56] [Owlhawk] It took me more then 20 years to learn to meditate properly. I'm sure you can beat my record...; [21:56] I'm all for checking things off your to do list, it feels good, you feel accomplished, you move forward. But it's about the journey, it's about the learning [21:56] Owlhawk- I am solitary and am really struggling with getting my mind to settle down [21:56] Back! Tricksters tamed and off to dream land. [21:56] [Owlhawk] I am as well [21:57] [Owlhawk] One trick I use for settling the mind is 4 square breathing meditation. [21:57] You might try the glitter jar to give your mind something to focus on. [21:57] [Owlhawk] Well done Spiral, although you are aware that you just cursed yourself, trickster kids side? [21:58] I am not too concerned about ticking off a to do list, I did that for long enough. The 4 square breathing I end up seeing the numbers in my mind- remember the Electric Company when they counted- kind of like that [21:58] Oh, I've been cursed for a while now...lol. [21:58] rovena-glitter jar? [21:58] [Owlhawk] hmmmm....that is a bit of an issue.... [21:59] [Owlhawk] what you want to do is something that distracts material mind [21:59] strongbear, I hope you figure it out, good luck, keep trying [21:59] prayer beads [21:59] [Owlhawk] so that the other aspects of mind can work [21:59] You take a mason jar, fill it with water, some glitter glue, and various size glitter. Shake it up and watch the glitter til it all settles at the bottom. [22:00] [Owlhawk] prayer beads can work for some. There are members of ADF that make them. [22:00] The last attempt at the Mental Dicipline I started with https://www.headspace.com, and used their free 10-day trial. I then used and evolved those techniques on my own. [22:00] prayer beads- hmm, I did try those for a while when I began working around the nine virtues [22:00] Prayer beads sound interesting, but I’m not really sure what one would do with them. [22:01] [Owlhawk] I've never used prayer beads, so I don't have a great deal of xp with them [22:01] I have made a number of sets of ogham beads [22:01] You name the bead, think of the concept, meditate on it, move on to the next one [22:02] My [22:02] the first set i made was simply 9 wooden beads on a string with knots between [22:02] Perfect Strongbear [22:03] Land, Sea, Sky, Well, Tree, Fire, Ancestors, Nature Spirits, Shining Ones [22:03] as an example [22:03] Sorry....My Ancestor made a mala for me. When he passed, his husbands gifted me a new one because the original had broken, and my Ancestor was not able to fix it before he became too sick. [22:04] Well, folks, I have to go. See you soon, let me know if I can help! nightdrum@juno.com [22:05] NIght, Drum. [22:05] thank you for the suggestion, Drum. Night [22:05] Good night Drum, and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. [22:05] Thank you for the warm welcome today, take care [22:05] [Owlhawk] good night Drum [22:05] Thank you all for sharing :) [22:05] [Owlhawk] Sweet dreams [22:05] Night, All [22:05] *** Drum (Mibbit@sorcery-iuh9eo.buckeyecom.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:07] looking at the intro video for headspace, its mindfulness (?) [22:07] [Owlhawk] never seen it [22:08] yes. I’ve never had good luck with guided meditations or visulations and find the mindfulness usefull for me. [22:08] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Connection closed] [22:09] I went through a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) course as part of PTSD therapy [22:10] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has joined #ADF [22:10] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #ADF by ChanServ [22:10] I’ve found it useful for anxiety due to fying [22:11] my problem is slowing down [22:13] so when I work on the mental discipline I have issues and tend to attack the issue, but with the nature awareness it seems more enjoyable [22:14] and less of a "task" [22:16] [Owlhawk] why would you attack those issues? that really seems to be a good way of defeating the whole concept. [22:16] As I understand it, the purpose of mental discipline is to develop one's ability to focus which is important to many other aspects of what we do. [22:17] I spent 20 yrs in the infantry, its what we do :) [22:17] [Owlhawk] and it defeats the purpose of meditation [22:18] I spent a long time trying to figure out what to do for Nature Awareness, and after talking with a few people and found that things that were part of my life worked well for it. [22:18] [Owlhawk] That';s the way I worked with nature awareness [22:19] [Owlhawk] I made it personal and discussed how it affected my life, including theh home and car [22:20] what i am doing for nature awareness, since moving into my house is trying to connect with the spirits in this particular spot. I think I am getting somewhere, there are times when I think I feel curious relief that someone wants to tend the place not just own it [22:21] [Owlhawk] that's far more esoteric then I went with the topic [22:23] Owlhawk. I have not gotten beyond scribbling in a journal yet, but this is what I keep returning to. When I moved here I decided that since I will be here for a while I should try to be more respectful(?) to what is already here [22:24] of course, I am not beyond admitting this is some form of self delusion- ish thing [22:25] Ok, time for me to go offline for the night. Thank you all for sharing with me, and for being so welcoming. Hope to see you again next week. [22:26] We'll be here. [22:26] Sleep well [22:26] night. Sister-Spiral [22:26] [Owlhawk] And that's a good decision. However, how does your actions, currently, affect the natural world? [22:26] [Owlhawk] good night Spiral [22:26] Strongbear, when we moved here we approached the land as a partner [22:26] Good night Sister-Spiral [22:27] [Owlhawk] How can you imjprove those effects that grow from your actions? [22:27] People have said that when they visit here they get a sense of peace. [22:27] You too, Rovena. Good night Strongbear, and Owlhawk. Goodnight Dale! :) [22:27] *** Sister-Spiral (Mibbit@sorcery-b5c915.dsl.airstreamcomm.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:28] rovena- yes. The first thing I did was give thanks for allowing me here and admitting I am a "steward" more than "owner". [22:28] Same here, g'night all [22:28] *** Ren (Mibbit@sorcery-g74a5p.dyn.optonline.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:29] Owlhawk- I am more conscientious about how my landscaping, recycling, attitude affect the environment. Is that what you are asking? [22:30] night Ren [22:30] [Owlhawk] yes. document that. discuss how it has changed you opinions and actions. how it has affected your future intentinos. discuss recycling and how it will help you land [22:31] Owlhawk- thank you. [22:33] I’m on my way out too. Good night all, and thanks for the interesting conversations :) [22:33] [Owlhawk] anytime. it's what we are here for.. That's the formula that worked for me.namely how does my actions affect the world and how can I improve that effect [22:34] I guess I kind of dismissed that aspect, I think it is part of my responsibility rather than something nice to be done [22:34] *** Dale (guest@sorcery-kc6tfq.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Client exited] [22:35] [Owlhawk] document it and discuss it. it's a big part of how we effect the world around us. We can affect the small areas around us, not the macro [22:36] Not everyone has that sense of responsiblity and we want to cultivate it [22:36] deal, thank you again [22:39] alright- the High Days- I follow a Germanic hearth, but I celebrate Oct 31 as Halloween more or less ( it is my birthday) and this year I decided to honor Hel as the deity of the occasion. honor her for caring for the ancestors. Is that acceptable for DP submission? [22:39] [Owlhawk] anytimje [22:40] [Owlhawk] was it in an ADF style, or are 4 of your 8 high day's in an ADF style? [22:40] Yes. You are not required to celebrate on the day [22:41] I have tried several different formats in the past, the ADF COoR seems most right to me, so I have pretty much stuck along those lines [22:42] *** Drum (Mibbit@sorcery-iuh9eo.buckeyecom.net) has joined #ADF [22:42] *** Drum (Mibbit@sorcery-iuh9eo.buckeyecom.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:43] [Owlhawk] that was my reaction when I started working with the ADF COoR [22:45] it seems to flow more, and it "resonates" better with me [22:45] [Owlhawk] yup [22:47] more worshipful, celebratory than ceremonially. And after reading Ian Corrigan's book Sacred Fire, Holy Well it is multipurpose [22:48] [Owlhawk] haven't read that book, but yup. much moreo spiritual then magical whoooooo nonsense [22:49] I started out with GD type, got too wrapped up in left foot here, right index finger there types of details [22:50] [Owlhawk] lol [22:51] Its a good book, not one of the reviews i did for the DP but I am glad I have it [22:51] [Owlhawk] Wicca for me, in high school, followed by a liberal reading list during univeristy [22:52] [Owlhawk] Ian is awesome, The only reason I don't have any of his books is finincial. [22:53] I first was introduced to wicca during my first deployment- long depressing story- and it got me started researching, the first activity I did was Donald Michael Kraig's Modern Magick [22:54] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-f0je6p.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit:] [22:54] [Owlhawk] havn' [22:54] [Owlhawk] haven't heard that name in quite some time. [22:55] that was back when we had to rely on books, not google ( the cranky old man sez) [22:56] [Owlhawk] Uhmmmm I started on Cunningham and Starhawk.... [22:57] I think Cunningham was the first wicca book I read (wicca and living wicca) I like his writing. [22:58] [Owlhawk] his work is excellent. Should be followed up,for wiccan, with Uncle Bucky's Big Blue Book. [23:00] got that too, as a matter of fact his book the tree really hit home with me and got me directed towards heathenry [23:00] [Owlhawk] lol [23:00] i just looked, i have 11 of cunnigham's titles [23:00] [Owlhawk] wow [23:02] i remember doing the self dedication from big blue and thinking i did something wrong, cuz nothing happened [23:03] [Owlhawk] lol. you are not alone. it's only later that you learn that it is an internal thing [23:04] no kidding. I do not think I ever got "dedicated" until one day when for no reason I sat down and wrote a short story with no forethought or planning. and then when I read the finished story... [23:06] [Owlhawk] 2nd and 3rd degree reactions are even more extremen [23:09] i bet. I would read papers describing when initiations "took" and wondered. now I think I tend to not seek it out so much as it will happen when it is time [23:12] [Owlhawk] Yes it will. And on that note, I need to go as I need to be up at stupid o'clock tomorrow [23:12] [Owlhawk] See you next week. *** Closed channel log for #ADF at 2017-02-21 11:12:33 PM