*** Opened channel log for #adf at 2016-03-01 7:28:48 PM [19:28] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-2bv46v.cable.rogers.com) has joined #adf [19:28] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [19:28] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Mon Aug 3 7:55 AM [19:28] =NickServ= This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your [19:28] =NickServ= nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, [19:28] =NickServ= please choose a different nick. [19:28] =NickServ= If you do not change within 1 minute, I will change your nick. [19:28] =NickServ= Password accepted - you are now recognized. [19:28] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ [19:52] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:53] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [19:54] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [19:54] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:55] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [19:55] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [19:55] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:56] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [19:56] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:57] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [19:57] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [19:57] *** LaurenN (Mibbit@sorcery-ivunfg.tx.comcast.net) has joined #adf [19:58] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:58] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [19:58] Hello Lauren [19:59] Evening! [19:59] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [19:59] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:59] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:00] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@sorcery-gka4di.mi.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:01] Hello Rob [20:01] Hi! [20:01] How are you tonight? [20:02] Managing. preparing for surgery in a few days. [20:02] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:02] Prep mostly involes cleaning the place sufficiently that my mother won't freak out when she gets here. [20:03] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [20:03] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:03] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:04] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [20:04] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:04] Hello Nikita [20:04] Good evening, Rovena :) [20:04] *** Lonnie (Mibbit@sorcery-pr0221.client.mchsi.com) has joined #adf [20:05] Hello Lonnie [20:05] Good evening! I wondered if there would be a chat tonight. [20:05] Me too. I never got an email. [20:05] Everyone cast their vote today? ADF election :) [20:05] We haven't yet established whether there will. >8) [20:05] I did. [20:06] Hubby and I voted [20:06] Mundane election isn't til Saturday for us [20:06] I'm sure everyone else is watching election results with deep interest, that's why they're not here. [20:06] I voted :) I'll be stoked if the AD and VAD are my picks. [20:07] I haven't. But I don't know anyone well enough to make a sound decision. Next time, though! [20:07] It's going to be a long night for the news, for sure. [20:07] [Owlhawk] now that the meowing Daemon is off my lap and I can reach the keyboard, hello all! [20:07] Our voting is a week from today. [20:08] Hi! [20:08] [Owlhawk] good luck with your surgery Rob. [20:09] Husband is still at the polls right now, apparently i'ts a bit of a fustercluck. [20:09] lol, hi, Owl. [20:09] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:09] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [20:09] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:10] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@sorcery-oaru1r.ca.charter.com) has joined #adf [20:10] Hello Trent [20:10] hi everyone [20:11] Hi Trent. [20:11] Hi! [20:12] Does anyone know any Greek Lore dealing with parrots? [20:12] [Owlhawk] I'm so glad i can't vote down there [20:12] [Owlhawk] ??? [20:13] You probably can in Louisiana. [20:13] [Owlhawk] Rob, I think this is a question for you... [20:13] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:13] [Owlhawk] that's frightening rovena [20:13] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [20:13] *** Mode change [+o rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:13] [Owlhawk] that's frightening rovena [20:13] lol, voting is important. The more the merrier? [20:14] [Owlhawk] I think Bernie Sanders is too right wing... [20:14] Even the dead tend to vote here [20:14] [Owlhawk] lol [20:14] Parrots? Not sure they would ever have seen such beasts. [20:15] Even gorillas weren't seen by folks from the mediterranean until Roman times. [20:15] [Owlhawk] maybe out of Eygpt...but that's a strech [20:15] Let me see where they're native. But no, i definitely know of no ancient lore that mentions them specifically. [20:15] I didn't think so either, Rob. I had a dream involving hawks, and one kind of morphed, from the corner of my eye, to look like like a parrot. I think there's some vedic influence in Greek times, and they had a goddess with a parrot, I believe? Maybe I'm wrong. [20:16] Parrots are native to India, but nothing north of the Sahara in Africa/Europe. [20:17] Fair enough. Just figured I'd ask out of curiosity. Learn new things everyday. :) [20:17] My educated guess is that parrot lore that managed to get to Greece would have changed it to a different bird that they would be more familiar with. [20:18] *** Lilly_Desmond (Mibbit@sorcery-c4prgk.fios.verizon.net) has joined #adf [20:18] Hm. [20:18] But then sometimes things do get through unaltered from other regions, like Persephone being underground in the winter and above in the summer. [20:18] Hello Lilly [20:18] [Owlhawk] could be nature spirits rather then Gods [20:18] Hi [20:18] This is true, Owl. [20:19] Hi Lilly. [20:19] [Owlhawk] I'd look into totems a bit. meditate on it more. [20:20] How common are totems in Indo-European lore? Out of curiosity. [20:20] No reaso you can't work with non-Eorpean animal spirits. [20:20] Depends how we're defining totem. [20:20] They certainly honored animal spirits. [20:21] Makes sense. [20:21] Shapeshifting is also a biggie. [20:21] Totem is one of those words with so many different definitions floating around that I hate to try answering it without defining it first. >8) [20:22] Shapeshifting is huge in multiple cultures. [20:22] I wonder why. [20:23] Stories of humans who have animal powers definitely resonate around the world. [20:23] Tarzan leaps to mind. [20:24] So, because we were once closer to nature, it made sense we could be one with? [20:24] Whether we were ever close to nature is another discussion. >8) [20:25] But even in cultures that thought of humans as masters of the land, you see these stories being told and retold. [20:25] True enough. [20:25] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:26] *** rovena (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [20:26] It's nice when different Lore comes together. [20:27] *** rovena is now known as Guest50907 [20:27] *** Guest50907 (rovena@sorcery-mudgla.direcpc.com) has quit IRC [Quit: SorceryNet Kiwi WebChat] [20:27] While I don't think they thought of "energy" in the way modern Neo-Pagans think of it, they clear thought that animals had some kind of force that they 9humans) could connect to and use for themselves, if they did the right stuff to earn it. [20:27] hmm. [20:27] (I think we're scaring people off.) [20:28] lol, tis rather quiet. [20:28] [Owlhawk] meh, it's a good topic [20:28] Nothing scares me ;) [20:28] Courage is a noble virtue. XD [20:28] The clergy are all terrified that lisa will ask to be admitted to the Clergy Council with trial by combat. [20:29] [Owlhawk] I want video! [20:29] Even trial by calisthenics would be pretty one-sided. [20:29] That was not explicitly stated in my application [20:30] [Owlhawk] Does the Council have a chosen champion yet? [20:30] It makes me pretty sad that I won't be defending my Warriors championship this year [20:31] Fox used to do okay at our Lughnasadh games. [20:32] And I feel like crystal could hold her own. [20:32] [Owlhawk] likely your best shot would be Crystal [20:37] Now I've scared everyone away [20:38] To go back to shapeshifting, berserkers are a pretty neat example [20:38] [Owlhawk] what? it isn't like you pulled a sword out! [20:38] lol [20:38] I was certain;y thinking of them just now. >8)\ [20:39] "Float like a butterfly..." [20:42] Bumble like a bee? [20:43] lol, sure. Bees are cool. [20:43] I rather sting like a wasp, and be productive as a bee, anyway. [20:43] The fylgja in Norse / Germanic lore is part of the soul complex. One aspect of the fylgja is seen in the form of an animal. It could be sent out, seen in vision, and even foretell death. [20:44] "Soul complex"? Is the soul a structure in Germanic lore? [20:45] Yes. There are multiple parts of the soul. Varying in number depending on the source. The idea is that there is more to us than one body and one soul. [20:46] Depends on the part fo the Germans you're talking about too [20:46] So, do all souls go to Valhalla, then, or just the one, if the soul qualifies? [20:46] Huh. [20:47] "soul" is actually a misnomer for what Lonnie is talking about [20:47] you don't have one "soul" you have like 12 parts [20:47] your breath is one part, your will is one part, your "power' (Maegen) is one part [20:48] There are many possible destinations for the afterlife in the lore. The mound, reincarnation, halls of the deities, Hel for most, Valhalla for those dead in battle. Most lore doesn't make a separation of ideas on Valhalla and Hel. [20:48] and, as it were, not even most dead went to Valhalla [20:48] Ah. So like a diamond. Many aspects of one thing. [20:48] for one thing, Freyja gets her first pick of the warriors [20:48] but anyone who dies other than in combat has a number of other places to go when dead [20:48] Lauren, I say soul or soul complex for simplicity of discussion. If Einstein can insist truth can be spoken simply than so can Heathens. LOL [20:48] Right, Greyja gets to choose. it's like a big game of Pokemon. [20:49] er Freyha [20:49] including Ran's hall under the sea, and Hela's halls, which are actually supposed to not be awful. [20:49] "Frothgar, I choose you!" [20:49] So the dead go everywhere, depending on their type of death/ [20:49] lol, Rob. [20:49] Nikita, the dead go where they go. Best to live a good life and find out when you get there. [20:50] ^ [20:50] Although, NDE studies are far more fascinating with ongoing research. [20:50] I find this interesting. It's truely like a whole nother journey...like a life after a life. No end. Lots of possibility. [20:50] There's lots ofa rgument about who "gets" to go where, but as someone who is close to Hela, I hope I get to go see her. [20:51] *** Drakothorne (Mibbit@sorcery-ekn1kp.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [20:51] There should be more on NDE studies, for sure. [20:51] Good evening everyone! [20:51] Godo evening Drako. [20:51] *good [20:51] [Owlhawk] morning [20:51] Hi! [20:52] Nikita, listen to the skeptiko podcast. Awesome interviews in that field. [20:53] So if a soul is a complex, why aren't there 9? Such as the realms, and virtues? Just curious. [20:53] Gotcha, Lonnie. [20:53] Lauren, that is very likely in my opinion. I hope we all have the opportunity to visit many places and learn even deeper truths of our existence. [20:53] I think Harry Potter explained why splitting the soul is a bad idea =P [20:54] [Owlhawk] different type of splitting. more the parts it's made up of then spliting the whole [20:54] Like a clock, with a bunch of gears. [20:55] Nikita, the 9 virtues are an invention of Neopagans. Useful learning structure but very far from canon. [20:55] Also there are only 7 realms in Anglo-Saxon lore [20:55] :O [20:56] And the Celts have both 3 realms (land sea sky) and the 4 airts (directions/winds) [20:56] The Norse have the 9 realms [20:56] and to add insult to injury, nobody knows what the seven Anglo-Saxon realms ARE, they just know from one of the charms that there are 7 worlds [20:56] there's no list [20:56] Strange. Is it because of a lack of records that there's a discrepancy in realm numbers and virtues? [20:57] there were no lists of virtues in the ancient worlds that I know of [20:57] the virtues lists are entirely a modern construction - the Nine Noble are a rather badly condensed version of teh Havamal, ADF's are from different places but have a more neopagan flavor [20:57] Hm. I thought there were the 4 for Greece. And then there were just the social laws and etiquette, I guess. [20:58] and we have no idea - we have an original language source for the Anglo-Saxon seven worlds, so that's about as reliable as they get [20:58] [Owlhawk] 4 what for the Greeks? [20:58] There are always the Delphic Maxims if you want to drive yourself mad. >8) [20:58] 4 "virtues" for lack of a better word. [20:58] Lauren, well said. [20:58] The Maxims at Delphi? XD [20:59] And really ,w e have no idea how much of the nine worlds Snorri influenced - depending on the argument, the depictions of hell are particularly... christianized. [20:59] "Be a good husband!" [20:59] Indeed. Beowulf was translated by monks, wasn't it? [21:00] [Owlhawk] Maxims of Delphi are a good place to look for such things. Moderation is mentioned for example [21:01] All the lore was written by Christians. Starting around 200 years after conversion. The question is how much they were trying to preserve cultural history. That's part of the fun of going deeper than just the poems, and also paying attention to archaeology. [21:02] Hm. Besides regionalization, maybe that's why there's differences in certain stories? Like parentage, or how events unfold. [21:02] It's clear the Gods and Goddesses of lore inspire imagination and call to those who will listen in spite of little written record. [21:02] I agree, Lonnie. Nothing is like working with them. [21:03] I am off, night all! [21:04] My favorite source of lore to read are the complaints of local Christian clerics when they tire of the Pagan activities that still cling to the public minds. I can always imagine how frustrated they would've been and it makes me smile. [21:04] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@sorcery-gka4di.mi.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:04] [Owlhawk] Good night rob [21:04] Night Rob. :) [21:06] *** LisaWM (Mibbit@sorcery-i87.i99.72.45.IP) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:07] *** Lonnie (Mibbit@sorcery-pr0221.client.mchsi.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:11] *** Drakothorne (Mibbit@sorcery-ekn1kp.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:14] ..and the chat died. XD I should probably go as well. Dawn breaks too soon. [21:14] *** JamieGoodwin (jamiegoodwi@sorcery-o33ube.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) has joined #adf [21:14] [Owlhawk] hi [21:15] Hi, Owl. [21:16] Is there a chat next week? [21:16] [Owlhawk] every tuesday. Same Bat Time, Same Bat Station! [21:17] lol, alright. Any topic? [21:18] I assume the Tues after we might discuss Ostara, then the week after that, review of Ostara. [21:18] [Owlhawk] we don't set topics as a general rule. We let those who join decide where things go [21:18] Ah, well. More fun then. [21:18] *** Lilly_Desmond (Mibbit@sorcery-c4prgk.fios.verizon.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:19] Anyways, thank you. I'm heading off for the evening. Fare thee well, everyone! [21:20] [Owlhawk] good night [21:20] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] *** Closed channel log for #adf at 2016-03-01 9:47:41 PM