*** Opened channel log for #adf at 2/16/2016 7:29:40 PM [19:29] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@sorcery-2bv46v.cable.rogers.com) has joined #adf [19:29] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [19:29] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Mon Aug 3 7:55 AM [19:29] =NickServ= This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your [19:29] =NickServ= nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, [19:29] =NickServ= please choose a different nick. [19:29] =NickServ= If you do not change within 1 minute, I will change your nick. [19:29] =NickServ= Password accepted - you are now recognized. [19:29] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ [19:46] *** Rovena (Mibbit@sorcery-lkorco.direcpc.com) has joined #adf [19:46] *** Mode change [+o Rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [20:00] *** Shaz (Mibbit@sorcery-5qj0b0.optusnet.com.au) has joined #adf [20:02] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:03] Quiet night. [20:03] Hello everyone! [20:03] Hello Shaz [20:03] Hello Nikita [20:03] We are just getting started. [20:03] Hi :) [20:03] How are you tonight? [20:04] Hi there.. never sure if I convert the time zone correctly :) [20:04] Good. I was just reading a book when I realized the time. [20:04] [Owlhawk] kitty bath completed, no blood visible, guess it`s chat time now!" [20:04] We are just getting started so you must have done it right [20:05] What kind of kitty do you have, Owl? [20:06] [Owlhawk] the wife has 3 Currently they are joined by my brothers two. [20:07] So many! [20:08] I keep offering to trade one or two kitties for some of his brews but he cites trade rules prventing it [20:09] [Owlhawk] thank the gods for international borders! [20:09] *** GreyCatsidhe (Mibbit@sorcery-tft2mh.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [20:09] lol [20:09] Hello all! [20:10] Hello Grey! [20:11] Hello! [20:11] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@sorcery-gka4di.mi.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:11] Good evening, Grey! [20:11] Hello Rob [20:12] [Owlhawk] the wife would also accept baby bunnies.... [20:12] An idle bunch we are. No, wait, there you are! [20:12] Hi, Rob! [20:12] [Owlhawk] hi rob [20:12] Bunnies? Aren't they harder to care for? [20:13] [Owlhawk] And apparently I wouldn`t be allowed to bbq them either... [20:13] *** Drakothorne (Mibbit@sorcery-ekn1kp.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [20:13] Why would you have them if not to eat? [20:13] Hello Drakothorne [20:13] [Owlhawk] I am told that they are fglu [20:14] Greetings all :) [20:14] [Owlhawk] fluffy, cute and cuddable [20:14] Hi! [20:14] lol, you finally made it, Drako. [20:14] Buddies are rather fluffy. [20:14] *Bunnies [20:14] Buddies can be fluffy, sure. [20:15] Shhhh Niki. No poking fun. I'm a busy man afterall =P [20:16] If they're wearing fur, I'm sure they could. [20:16] Fur coats are popular this time of year. Since it got to like 9 degrees this weekend. [20:17] Only 9? lucky you. It was about -15 here >.< [20:17] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@sorcery-oaru1r.ca.charter.com) has joined #adf [20:17] I live near Watertown, NY. We were -30 something the other day. Booya! :P [20:17] It was 65 here today [20:17] Well, if you didn't live near Canada, it would be iwarm enough to reach single digits. [20:17] (I feel ;ike I need to ask if anyone besides owlhawk is likely to use metric temperatures. [20:17] [Owlhawk] Ottawa got over 40 cms of snow today and it was the coldest place on the p lanet this weekend [20:17] It's cooled down a bit here [20:17] Wow. I didn't realize -30 was a temperature. [20:17] [Owlhawk] hi everyone [20:18] Hi! [20:18] Hello Trent [20:18] I DON'T live near canada XD I'm in southern new hampshire. that's not near canada at all. well, maybe closer than you, but still! lol [20:18] It's hitting 56 this weekend for ConVocation in Michigan. [20:18] Hi Trent. [20:18] it's like 80 here in California :-P [20:18] I was debating whether to wear long or short trousers before I saw that. Now it's definitely the short. [20:19] [Owlhawk] that`s tshirt weather Rob [20:19] Rob, i'd be wearing shorts in that weather lol [20:19] We're comparing temperates [20:19] I wear shorts down to around 20, but then my legs have no nerve endings. [20:19] I'm not playing :P [20:20] [Owlhawk] we got under -30 Celisius last week [20:20] There should be a state of perpetual Autumn. [20:20] Owlhawk, I was in Ottawa with my family earlier. I am so grateful for my husband's good driving skills. The city was such a mess! [20:20] Niki, I couldn't agree more :3 [20:21] (-22 Fahrenheit, impressive.) [20:21] I literally poured offerings in thanks to several spirit allies a moment ago. [20:21] [Owlhawk] Today? yeah. it looks nasty today. they`re apparently just now starting to dig out driveways [20:21] Thank you for the translation, Rob XD [20:21] [Owlhawk] not nearly as bad as the temps last year. [20:21] I'm a computer programmer, I've memorized the conversion formula. >8) [20:22] We drove in yesterday to visit the History Museum and check out the Viking exhibit. I wanted to extend our stay because of the weather, but my husband wanted to head home... Most stressful trip I've ever gone on! LOL [20:22] [Owlhawk] But it was cold enough that the great lakes all well more then doubled their ice coverage [20:22] There's a viking exhibit? :O [20:22] [Owlhawk] yes. [20:23] Yes! I highly recommend it. The Canadian Museum of History outside of Ottawa is amazing. Their permanent exhibit on indigenous cultures is also very, very impressive. [20:23] [Owlhawk] it`s just over the river in Hull [20:23] I heard there was one in WA. I didn't realize another was closer! I shall have to add it to me to-do list. [20:23] Next time I get up that way (when the weather is nicer, I hope), I should let Canadian ADFers know and maybe meet up! [20:23] i sometimes miss the snow...then i see what's going on in the whole rest of the country and then i stop missing it :-P [20:24] Niki, if you go, you are totally picking me up on the way! [20:24] *** ConorWarren (Mibbit@sorcery-vhdgjn.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:24] [Owlhawk] Nikitia, check their website for the exhibit datesw [20:24] Ends sometime in April. [20:24] If folks want to help with my presentation a ConVocation on Friday, everyone throw me one question you have about practicing Hellenismos today. [20:24] Oh. So it moves? Is it annual? [20:24] (I wanna see if you have any I haven't covered.) [20:25] It's a traveling exhibit. [20:26] I know very little about Hellenismos. I know that a friend explored it a bit but had difficulties connecting with the celebrations because of the climate differences. The focus was sometimes different seeming than from what was happening around us in Upstate NY. [20:26] Greece has a very different agricultural cycle than any part of North America, so that's not surprising. [20:27] Most working groups move their holidays around to compensate. [20:27] Do you move yours around, and can you give an example of one? [20:27] Our weather doesn't match any of the hearths I know [20:28] Their climate is more like ours I think? [20:28] I do not, because I don't do the big festivals in my home practice. >8) But off the top of my head, there's a grape harvest festival in like March or April? Anyone arund here would need to move that to the local grape harvest time. [20:29] Shaz, in terms of when the planting is done, probably. Summer was when they didn't grow anything because it was too hot. [20:29] Yes, that's the same [20:29] Interesting! [20:29] So Planting usually started in September and everything would be harvested by April or May. [20:29] Very hot summer, mild winter, no snow [20:30] Most ancient Greeks would never see snow or ice up close unless they enjoyed mountain climbing. [20:30] very much the same :) [20:30] I know people who have never seen snow [20:30] So, we shouldn't honor the traditional High Days? [20:31] When I was in university we had students dome to michigan from southeast Asia who had literally never seen snow before. We made sure they bought the right clothing in time. [20:31] Traditional High Days in which sense, Nikita? [20:32] The Sabbats. Imbolc, Ostara, etc. The Wheel. [20:32] (One of them had gone to a snow exposition in Thailand, where the turn a warehouse into a giant freezer so people can do winter sports and stuff. That sounds both awesome and sad.) [20:32] I agree Rob [20:32] Those certainly aren't what the ancient Greeks would have done. [20:33] What we do in our practice today is up to us, of course. [20:33] Snow is not my favorite. I saw it for the first time only a couple of years ago. I have a winter bucket list, and that's about it :P Though during the blizzard I listened to a bunch of Alan Watts speeches while watching the snow fall. That was pretty cool. [20:33] Plenty of us try to match up Hellenic festivals with High Days, especially in ADF public rites. [20:33] Hm. [20:34] But for a stricly recon group, I can't imagine they'd have any interest in the Sabbats. [20:34] I understand. But for ADF practice? [20:34] Up to you/us. [20:34] I'm not the Hellenismos Police trying to enforce anything. >8) [20:35] I have no idea what's going on lol [20:35] heh [20:35] A Hellenic Grove would have to do eight rituals at roughly those times per our bylaws, but there'd be leeway in what exact festival could be done. [20:35] lol, I guess not. [20:36] i've always thought of the high days just being astronomical events, and what you celebrate for them varies [20:36] In the same way that we celebrate Yule in June [20:36] I knew a guy that followed a Roman hearth; he would do the WoY with our protogrove but follow a Roman calendar in his personal practice [20:36] That's what most ADF Hellenes do. [20:36] I wonder...since we're technically a Druid group...how much is druidry, and how much is our hearth? Or is that up to us as well? [20:36] the path of the earth around the sun is one of those truly "universal" things [20:37] How much of it do you want to be Druidry? >8) [20:37] That makes sense, Rovena. [20:37] Isaac always made clear that we used the term Druids because it was recognizable and because there wasn;t a better term for pan-UE practice. [20:37] pan-IE [20:38] Well, I felt as if the Kindred were okay with it being Druidaic in practice, Hellenic is spirit, if that makes sense. [20:38] Ah, [20:38] Sure, works for me. [20:38] If the practice isn't meeting your needs, modify the practice. [20:38] So if we're not technically Druids, what are we? [20:39] Pan-Indo-European practitioners. PIEs for short? [20:39] Well, I have always liked pie.... [20:39] Each of us is a different flavored pie. [20:40] We used to get sporadic complaints about how dare we call ourselves Druids when we're not all Celts. I haven't seen any lately. [20:40] Can I be banana creme? [20:40] Hmmm... What would Irish pie be... Shepperd's pie? [20:40] Well that's how Keltria came to be, right? [20:40] Cottage pie. Go with beef. [20:40] Yes Drako, you can [20:40] I asked myself the same question at first: "How can I be a Druid, and not celtic?" [20:40] kangaroo for me [20:40] It is indeed, Grey. [20:40] Oreo pie. [20:41] Well, I have celtic blood in me, but my hearth culture isn't celtic. so, am I half druid? lmao [20:41] We never make a big deal of blood ancestry as a requirement for anything. [20:41] Unlike certain Greek recon groups I can think of, alas. [20:42] I've heard some Norse groups are heritage-based as well. [20:42] Sad but true. [20:42] Some, but I expect that from barbarians. >8) [20:42] Who are we to dictate whom the Gods can call to them? [20:42] NIki, you have no idea how true you are. I have come across many, many norse groups that are extremely biased and will only accept you as a norse practioner if you have norse blood [20:42] I always like to think that maybe I'm at least three times reincarnated and so I had a life as a Greek, a Viking, and a Celt. :P [20:43] If you're the head of the YSEE, he can tell you that you're hearing the wrong gods. [20:43] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:43] So besides some racism and nationalism (and obvious location), what is different between Hellenic recons in Greece and those outside? [20:43] That's pretty sad Rob [20:43] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has joined #adf [20:43] I've always believed the Norse never had any qualms about taking what wasn't theirs in the first place. why would their gods be any different? I may not have norse blood in me, but the norse gods have claimed me [20:44] Biggest difference besides those is that hey have more people so can focus more on public rites and festivals. [20:44] If you've seen the videos Labrys posts of their stuff, it's amazing. [20:44] also, who knows who is descended from who? especially in the Roman empire, all types of peoples moved around everywhere [20:44] as slaves, if nothing else [20:45] That was what I was aiming for with the ritual i submitted for ConVocation, sadly they did not accept it. [20:45] Amazingly, Trent, many of those groups make that call based on skin color. [20:45] (Shocking, I know.) [20:45] I've seen a couple videos and they are indeed amazing! [20:46] US Hellenics haven't been able to get "critical mass" to do anything beyond backyard ties. [20:46] ties > rites [20:47] Women seemed to have enjoyed fewer rights in Greek culture than Norse and Celtic women (non slaves, anyway). How do modern women find Hellenic groups these days? Are there any examples of priestesses besides oracles? [20:47] I've done some genealogy testing. Nat Geo matched me up, shockingly, with a match to native German people, even though the majority of my blood is mediterranean. Blood and genes are strange. It should never base any religious affliation. [20:47] Just so that I can understand, why didn't they accept your ritual? [20:47] Very few modern groups have oracles, the ones that do actually seem to prefer women. [20:47] Our Ancestors got around! [20:47] Why do you think that is? Historical precedent, or something else? [20:48] Shaz - Partly because Kirk later submitted his own ritual, and did anyone really think they';d pick mine over his? >8) [20:48] okay :( [20:48] For reasons I think are invalid,m they refuse to do more than one ritual per time slot, so that's a mazimum of fourteen rituals for the weekend. [20:49] *** lesley (Mibbit@sorcery-g53org.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #adf [20:49] Compared to literally over a hundred workshops. [20:49] hello yall [20:49] How many Hellenic groves are there? [20:49] Hello [20:49] Hello Lesley [20:49] what are we talking about? [20:49] There used to be one, but they died pretty quickly, personality issues. [20:49] Hi Lesley :) [20:49] Shaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [20:49] If there's an entirely Hellenic Grove still around, I don't know which one they are. [20:49] Rovena!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [20:49] Nikita, don't know you but hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [20:50] Hi Lesley! [20:50] Grey, not sure. I've never asked them why they do that. >8) [20:50] Grey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [20:50] Historical precedent would make sense. [20:50] Long time since talked to many of yall [20:50] lol [20:50] Seriously long time! [20:50] Yep :) [20:50] Hm. So are the Hellenic members of ADF pretty much solitaries? [20:51] The number of groves might be a misleading number [20:51] Most are in Groves, from what I know. [20:51] I will be at either Wellspring or Summerland [20:51] Just not exclusively hellenic groves. [20:51] Where might I find the info on where Norse groves are located? [20:51] I see. [20:51] My protogrove started out over whelming Scottish and is how evenly split between Norse and Scottish [20:51] There is a Grove page...not sure how updated it is. [20:51] The Web site should include hearth cultures in the listings. [20:52] There is one that I am part of in TX (Norse with Anglo Saxon) [20:52] That page gets updated automatically with a script, it should always be current. [20:52] I'll email you the link. [20:52] Thank you, Rob. [20:53] There is a list of groves, nut it's not broken up by hearth culture lol [20:53] I have found though that most have a mixture of hearths in the grove even if at first it was heavy in one area [20:54] My Grove is Irish, but only a couple os uf have an irish hearth personally. [20:54] (of us) [20:54] Ah. Well, it's good to integrate. Our ancestors did. More or less. [20:54] I try to make sure we have extra rituals and such when requested. [20:55] Yeah it is good and also in some areas, there is not enough members in ADF to constitute multiple groves for the area [20:55] How does that work on High Days, though? I mean, wouldn't it be strange to call on two different hearth Kindred, or is there a way to leave it more 'open'? [20:55] Our group allows members to host a High Day in which they choose the hearth and deities. [20:55] W3e call the gods of our grove, but for individual praise people can call whoever they want. [20:55] The closest Grove to me is 90 miles away. I guess I'll stick to being a solitary =P [20:56] My protogrove is Irish focused but we have several members showing interest in Norse culture and lore. As they become more involved and practiced, I have no doubt that we'll offer some Norse style rituals in the near future. [20:56] At least you're not really close to one and can't get to them anyway, Drako :P [20:56] Well, I could easily get to them. I have a car. But it's rather out of the way lmao [20:57] Might be worth a High Day visit. [20:57] Plus, they're not norse anyways. So I'm not sure how that would work lol [20:57] Yeah, don't rule it out! [20:57] My grove is Norse/AngloSaxon and yet there is me that is Welsh Irish and another that is not sure yet, so four of the high days are Norse/Anglo and the other four can be what ever the caller chooses [20:57] Are protogroves listed? I cant recall. [20:57] They should be. [20:57] Yes [20:57] What's a protogrove? [20:57] Yes we are [20:57] A group working towards grove status. [20:57] The point of that page is publicity, and protogroves need it more. >8) [20:58] Got it. [20:58] You should go, Drako. Mingle. [20:59] you may meet another norse person [20:59] Niki, you've known me how many years now? at least 10. I am so not one for socializing lmao. social anxiety sucks majorly [20:59] I used to drive an hour and a half to get to a grove just for the fellowship. When I felt that I felt ready, I founded a protogrove near my own home. [20:59] Which Grove is it, Drako? [20:59] Yes it does. I know some who struggle with that. [21:00] I will be with you in spirit! And the Kindred. [21:00] Rob, Nemos Ognios [21:00] Social anxiety can be an issue. We had someone come to our Coffee Hour, walk into the store, and walk right out again because they were too afraid to ask anyone if they were us. [21:00] I know them well. Cei is not someone you should be worried about. [21:01] Yeah, I've had soldiers come to our rituals, get overwhelmed with the number of people, start to have some PTSD come up, and they had to go. Left their potluck dishes and everything. [21:01] Perhaps talking to them beforehand will help? Like online? [21:01] hell, i drive 200 to a protogrove for high days sometimes... [21:02] *200 miles* i mean [21:02] I'll at least send an email to the leader, or the organizer, since it's the only email listed for that grove [21:02] For me, the fellowship is so worth it. [21:02] Rovena used to drive from Lousianna to Texas for rituals back in the day [21:02] Cei responds quickly to email. [21:02] I think it's very worth it [21:02] Wow! [21:03] Driving 200 people to ritual would have been even more impressive, Trent! [21:03] The first protogrove here was 3 hrs away from us. [21:03] All aboard the Druid bus! [21:03] I get social anxiety, when I went to my first ADF festival, I got so overwhelmed and thought everyone hated me and made it miserable, but then I got to know everyone and have some of the best friends in ADF all over the world [21:03] :) [21:04] The nearest one to us when we started was a lot further :P [21:04] Many of us aren't socially adept, which can be an issue with new folks who are sensitive. [21:04] Rob, the email that's listed doesn'ty belong to a Cei, but to someone named Nevin. [21:04] Myself, if too many people came up to me and offered to help me, I would panic. [21:05] Hmm, okay. Don't know him. [21:05] Perhaps there's a friend who can go with you? You know I would if I was closer! [21:05] beb [21:05] Go ahead and send it anyway. >8) [21:05] Do you happen to have the email for Cei? [21:05] and I know you would Niki ^.^ [21:06] http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/ [21:06] Should be on there. [21:06] :O THE Ceisiwr Serith??? [21:06] The. [21:06] The one and only! [21:06] He's the one who founded Nemos Ognios. [21:07] Wow. [21:07] ...I feel bad that I've never hear of him >.> [21:08] So g meet him and ask him to sell you a book. >8) [21:08] So go [21:09] he is a great guy with some great reads! [21:09] Drak, if you went to a grove, how would you want others to treat you? I'm always working on improving my group's hospitality, but maybe there are things I don't think. [21:09] *don't think about doing. [21:10] I know for me having one or two greeters help but not all at once everyone, let them flow in not feel shoved in [21:11] *** ConorWarren (Mibbit@sorcery-vhdgjn.res.rr.com) has joined #adf [21:11] Grey, I honestly have no idea haha. I just have really bad social anxiety so I don't really get out a lot [21:11] [21:11] I am glad you are on here Drako [21:11] Hi Conor [21:11] part of the reason this was made was to connect others that are solitair with others and help ease into ADF [21:12] Hi Conor [21:12] Howdy! [21:12] Oh ask Niki, I have no problem conversing with people online. It's the in person part that I have trouble with lol [21:12] You missed all the Hellenic discussion though, sorry! [21:12] Damn it! I had to write an essay about Saint Anselm [21:12] [Owlhawk] the log will be on the website at some point [21:12] I should be getting my ConVo presentation ready, but here I am. >8) [21:13] Oh man, I obsess over presentations, when is ConVocation? [21:13] My bit is on Friday morning. [21:13] . . .you are a mad man [21:13] i should be working on my ADF Druid compared to Wicca power point speaker notes done but it can wait, I needed adf people time [21:14] I know the material well enough, I just have to structure in it such a way that I don't go "oh I should have mentioned this part earlier" like twenty times. [21:14] Oh, have you thought of just making an outline? [21:14] That's what I did for both my workshop and my lecture [21:14] That's what I'm doing. >8) [21:14] outlines are the best for speaking [21:14] That's ok, Drak. :) [21:14] But I don't want to explain rituals without covering kharis first [21:15] Well guys, I have to get going for tonight. It was wonderful to chat! Rob, thanks for all the great discussion! [21:15] Night all! [21:15] Night! [21:15] Stay warm. ;) [21:15] and covering the lunisolar calendar [21:15] Night, Grey! [21:15] I am so glad you were on Grey [21:15] *** GreyCatsidhe (Mibbit@sorcery-tft2mh.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:15] and so on. [21:15] Kindreds bless [21:15] Hmmm. [21:15] Are you just going to run down the months or explain the weirdness of it? [21:15] "We sometimes just add an intercalary month for no discernable reason" [21:16] I probably want to frontload the stuff new people will have no clue about to avoid interrupting questioners. [21:16] I understand Rob, I couldn't compare the two without talking about rituals and this power point just kept morfing and growing [21:16] The reason is discernable if you know astronomy. >8) [21:16] 3\ [21:16] That makes sense to me, maybe you could make a "vocab" sheet [21:16] Well, I know it is to keep things synced up [21:16] I have no printer, so it will be sheetless. [21:17] It's a nineteen year cycle, same as the Hebrew calendar. [21:17] What?! Really? [21:17] And using the whiteboard may be challenging if I need to stand up. >8) [21:17] Absolutely really. i think the Chinese is the same,k but don't quote me. [21:18] Well, now I can stop being mad that I can't figure out the beat of it [21:18] The Muslim calendar doesn't add leap months, which is why their holidays shift from season to season. [21:18] Oh yeah, I *did* know that. [21:18] Twenty years ago Ramadan was in December. Now i think it;s June? [21:19] Sometime during the summer [21:19] Which is just insane where I live, don't see how my Muslims friends are doing it [21:19] Five leap months every nineteen years solves that. [21:20] interesting didn't know all this [21:20] I've programmed enough scheduling software that I had to learn how calendars worked even without being a Pagan. >8) [21:21] Oh! I didn't know you were a professional programmer [21:21] And I am now lateish for my other meeting, night all! [21:21] Later! [21:21] Night Rob [21:21] Professionakl is arguable. >8) [21:21] Kindreds bless night Rob [21:21] But I used to be paid for it, sure. [21:21] That explains why you eat your prey whole [21:21] [Owlhawk] good night rob [21:21] Night, Rob! [21:22] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@sorcery-gka4di.mi.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:22] next topic, lol [21:22] Before I forget...does anyone know where I can find a tutorial on making/reading my own Greek Alphabet Oracle? [21:22] I think so actually [21:23] I know people that could help but no not on that [21:23] Here is what I used https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/GAO.html [21:23] Like Jan Avande in OH [21:23] [Owlhawk] https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/GAO.html [21:23] Oh see, you and I had the same instinct ;D [21:23] lol, well, thank you Conor and Owl. [21:24] cool [21:24] [Owlhawk] is the usual beginning. Rob also has an android app in the Play Store for the Greek Aphabet Oracle [21:24] Does anyone know if there are visuals, like a video, that kind of shows me in action what its like? [21:24] Yes, I've heard nice things about that [21:24] Hmmmm [21:25] Now that I don't nkow [21:25] Gonna have to hit the hay. Thank you all for the warm welcome! Goodnight =D [21:25] Yes, I saw the app. My phone is rejecting it atm, so I'm working to get that fixed. [21:25] Kindreds bless Drako, night [21:25] Night [21:25] Night, Drako. [21:25] *** Drakothorne (Mibbit@sorcery-ekn1kp.res.rr.com) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:25] [Owlhawk] Jan`s essay on the Greek Alphabet Orale is on the ADF site in the Hellenic Kin section [21:25] Night! [21:25] [Owlhawk] Talk to Rob about getting to work [21:26] I'll check it out :) And it's not the app, it's my service provider. XD [21:26] [Owlhawk] ah [21:26] Also just punch your phone a whole bunch. That's how I solve my problems. By punching them. Coincidentally I'm not allowed to babysit my niece anymore [21:26] lol [21:27] haha [21:27] Are there any good Ogham apps out yet? [21:28] [Owlhawk] not athat I know of [21:28] question yall, how do you feel about using apps for divination? I sometimes wonder about that [21:29] [Owlhawk] it`s a random draw [21:29] I agree, it's still random [21:29] Hm. Same as websites, I suppose. I feel no connection, so it seems more luck if it seems relevant. [21:29] Never tried it but I am a bit old school [21:29] I hate using apps personally, I like the physical tool in my hand. [21:29] Deck of cards, rocks, whatever. [21:30] Rocks? [21:30] Depends on the circumstances, I like both [21:30] I have had some that seemed to not mean a thing and some that did, but I prefer my decks, things i feel [21:30] Yeah, I was using some rocks I painted for my Alphabet Oracle for a while [21:31] Hm. Does everyone change their source of divination after some time? [21:31] I have three I use at random times, an ogham set, a Crane divination set, and a Welsh deck [21:31] I feel like some people acquire more tools in their kit as time goes on. [21:32] Interesting. And what determines the change? Just feeling? [21:32] For protogrove ritual I use the Ninefold Oracle deck but for most other stuff it is Waite Rider [21:32] I'm not the most experienced person in the room but for me it was that not every tool I like using for every situation or circumstance [21:32] Waite Rider was my first deck, back when I was like 12. I still have it. [21:32] what I am drawing for usually, like is it a ritual? knowledge of what to do? for another that wants direction? [21:33] And when I have a client I like to give them a few options [21:33] I can tell this is going to be an interesting conversation, but it's time for me to go [21:33] Night, Shaz! [21:33] Kindreds bless Shaz, love ya! [21:33] Thanks everyone :) [21:33] Nighty night! [21:33] *** Shaz (Mibbit@sorcery-5qj0b0.optusnet.com.au) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:34] I am going to go too, Kindreds bless yall and see ya next week. [21:34] Hm. So different tools for different purposes, makes sense. I used to use tarot, but then it seemed to be ineffective, and came into possession of my oracle deck, which now seems ineffective. [21:34] The Ninefold was based on ADF cosmology so it makes sense for ritual. Waite Rider is just what I know best [21:34] You too, Lesley. [21:34] Nite Shaz [21:34] *** lesley (Mibbit@sorcery-g53org.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:35] Hmmmm, when I feel like a tool has become ineffective I usually feel like I'm doing something wrong [21:35] I feel like I'm missing something. Like there's not enough detail in my oracle deck to tell me what it is I need to understand..but trying to go back to tarot was almost doing too much. [21:36] Well I mean, you don't have to be an expert overnight right? [21:36] Do you make offerings before doing the reading or do you just plomp down and do it? [21:37] I usually turn on my oil diffuser when I do a reading (I use my oil diffuser in High Day rituals for the deities offering) [21:38] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:38] *** Nikita (Mibbit@sorcery-61r3u9.md.comcast.net) has joined #adf [21:39] Sometimes I'm just hit with the temptation to draw cards, and I don't always offer then. [21:45] Which times do you feel most effective? After offering or drawing on the fly? [21:47] Hm. Well, the offering one. But the entire scenario is usually different. With an intentionally reading, I sit down, take deep breaths, try to center, and usually try to speak to a specific entitiy or so, before opening it up to general messages from the Kindred, or asking clarification. [21:48] Usually an 'on the fly' draw only work for the first draw or so. [21:48]