[19:17] *** Owlhawk (Owlhawk@cf983e33.cpe.net.cable.f33844f1.com.hmsk) has joined #adf [19:17] *** Topic is: Welcome to the chat for Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship (ADF). Find out more about us at http://www.adf.org [19:17] *** Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.sorcery.net on Tue Mar 17 6:35 PM [19:17] =NickServ= Password accepted - you are now recognized. [19:17] *** Mode change [+o Owlhawk] on #adf by ChanServ [19:46] *** Alusa-ICTX (Alusa@f19ef537.dsl.skt2ca.3e6fd2e2.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [19:48] *** SaraKBlackwelder (Mibbit@93581b89.tampfl.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [19:48] [Owlhawk] hello Sara [19:49] hi! [19:49] [Owlhawk] blondie says hello cute baby! [19:50] she says hi! [19:53] *** Rovena (Mibbit@6ca5ed1b.6ca5f07f.72.170.imsk) has joined #adf [19:53] *** Mode change [+o Rovena] on #adf by ChanServ [19:56] [Owlhawk] hello. rovena. [19:57] Hello. How are you tonight? [19:57] *** VictoriaLaughlin (Mibbit@a6988d28.res.6ca6ab73.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [19:57] pretty good, how are you? [19:58] [Owlhawk] good. we're still above freezing and I learned to parrallel park a bus! [19:58] Hi everyone! [19:58] Waiting for the rain to start again [19:58] [Owlhawk] hello [19:58] We are 7 inches over for the year [19:58] wow! [19:59] 3 years of drought and now the monsoons [19:59] wow, well at least you're not in drought anymore... [19:59] Very true [20:00] [Owlhawk] ship the extra to california [20:01] Wish we could [20:01] What are everyone's plans for the Equinox [20:01] ? [20:02] Doing ritual this Saturday probably inside due to rain [20:02] DoD will be Lady Justice; American hearth [20:03] ah, interesting [20:04] [Owlhawk] I've been busy lately so I haven't even looked at that yet [20:05] :) [20:06] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #adf [20:07] [Owlhawk] hello [20:07] (sing-song) you say goodbye, and I say hello... [20:08] hello hello!!! [20:08] ;) [20:08] hello! [20:08] * BonnieCyr tackles Sara. [20:09] mob the treasurer! [20:09] lol [20:09] [Owlhawk] she has an attack 3 year old....I don't need to be hugged to death! [20:09] it's totally true [20:10] hey you know....that wouldn't be the worst way to go...i love hugs [20:10] and she'll be all mine in a month muahahahaha [20:10] *** ambermdoty (Mibbit@c3e66333.om.om.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [20:10] :D [20:11] Bonnie, Daphne totally has my Brigit Cross necklace on holding it and looking at it while watching toy story [20:11] Yesssssss [20:11] my little Brighidine in the making. [20:12] I'm so bringing her a devotional bracelet to Trillium [20:12] :D She really wanted it the other day and wore it to chool and all [20:12] that is awesome. [20:12] Eeeee! [20:13] school [20:13] the teachers asked what it was lol.... [20:13] [Owlhawk] ah, a pagan parent's problems....which Gods will my ki?d end up following? mine, or my friends? [20:13] hehehee [20:13] Their own [20:13] lol, excatly Rovena! [20:13] their own, guided very broadly by their village [20:14] it's one I got in Ireland too [20:14] <3 I am SO looking forward to Trillium [20:14] I asked Nancy/Caryn about doing a kid's ritual [20:15] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #adf [20:15] hi everyone [20:16] TRENT! [20:16] [Owlhawk] hello [20:16] I am looking forward to it as well! I need to register soon [20:16] TREEEEEEENNNNNT [20:16] <3 [20:16] Hi my west coast buddy! [20:16] hi yourself [20:16] :) [20:16] hehehe [20:17] how is everyone? [20:17] waiting to get wet [20:17] good [20:18] rovena: going swimming, or rain storm incoming? [20:19] *** ambermdoty (Mibbit@c3e66333.om.om.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:19] I'm good :] multi-tasking as my grove chat is also happening at this point :D [20:20] Rain up to 4 inches by Sunday [20:21] yikes [20:21] if you wanna send some of that here to CA, feel free [20:21] we'll take, oh, all of it [20:21] maybe not all at once [20:22] spread out over a week would be good [20:22] :-P [20:22] lol [20:22] this drought is starting to scare me though [20:23] We were in drought for 3 years [20:23] *** CarrionMann (Mibbit@4c4ab62b.dynamic.9dcf6d32.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [20:23] wow [20:23] my worry is that it's going to be permanent [20:23] [Owlhawk] hello Carrion [20:23] hi carrion [20:23] Hi All Sorry I am late! [20:24] HI Carrion [20:24] No such thing as late. Everyone drops in when they can and leave when they must [20:24] Hi, Carrion [20:25] hi Carrion! [20:25] Are we talking about anything in particular tonight or just chatting? [20:25] just chatting for now [20:26] ok thanks...just trying to catch up if I needed to [20:28] [Owlhawk] Trent, I wish we could send you snow. [20:29] ^ ditto. [20:29] heh, me too [20:29] I wish we could just ship it all out. [20:29] i know you guys have plenty of it... [20:29] i do miss it sometimes [20:29] If we're lucky I'm sure it'll melt by June. [20:29] but then i read about two-story houses being covered by it and then i stop missing it :-P [20:29] We do as well. Where do I send about 4 foot? [20:29] :( [20:29] [Owlhawk] we're down at least 20 feet from last year [20:30] send it to san luis obispo, california, 93401 [20:30] in Boston they've been dumping it in the harbor because there is just no more room. [20:30] :-P [20:30] [Owlhawk] on the other hand we got under -30 multiple times and hit -40 a few times [20:30] So does everyone have plans to celebrate the equinox and hurry spring up a bit? [20:31] We have spring here :) [20:31] We celebrated ours this past Saturday, but a bunch of us are road tripping to Tear of the Cloud this weekend. [20:31] stir up a little spring chaos. [20:31] it's spring here already [20:31] [Owlhawk] I really need to sit down and figure that out. That'll be thursday night. I have a bus driving test Wednesday morning, written, to study for first [20:31] we've been getting dumped on by pollen for weeks now [20:31] i'm not sure what i'm doing yet...i might try and go to the valley oak ritual, i might try and do something at home [20:32] [Owlhawk] reverse those days.... [20:32] I'm hosting a ritual for some friends over the weekend [20:32] our Grove is having our ritual on Saturday [20:32] My grove is celebrating on Sunday and ya....I have to get something written quickly. [20:35] it depends on how lazy i'm feeling on saturday i suppose :-P [20:35] Bonnie, BTW I know I owe you a couple of responses by email and I will be getting to that tonight or tomorrow. I haven't forgotten you. [20:35] Oh! <3 thank you. No, I wouldn't think you had ^__^ [20:36] i might do something at home though...i kinda want to start actually doing paganism, as opposed to visiting other people's paganism :) [20:36] :) [20:36] You are rather unforgettable in a good way...lol [20:36] Trent...doing Paganism is a lot of fun. [20:36] not that I don't enjoy the groups I do go to :) [20:37] groups are fun too, but doing things on your own can really be good for personal journeys [20:37] Energy is different in group as oppose to solo [20:38] agreed [20:38] focus and familiarity are also [20:39] [Owlhawk] I find solo ritual more intimate [20:39] [Owlhawk] group ritual i find more reinforcing, more family like [20:39] * BonnieCyr blushes. [20:39] yeah [20:39] maybe i'll do something with my wife, she might enjoy something like that [20:40] it is...small group ritual is more intimate than large usually also because the more familiar celebrants are with one another the easier it is to connect and produce group mind and magic. [20:41] that makes sense [20:41] [Owlhawk] I've only done one group ritual, last year, outside of festivals. [20:41] two person rituals (working partners) are actually my favorite, especially for magic [20:42] [Owlhawk] that really requires a good partner. [20:42] yeah [20:43] Is it possible to do magic with a working partner who doesn't really know much about it? [20:44] [Owlhawk] depends on how the working is structured. but I wouldn't try, unless I was using the rite as a teaching tool to reinforce lessons and show how they are applied. [20:45] yeah, i would think both partners would have to have some knowledge at least [20:46] ^what J said. [20:46] I've done a few COoR learning rites for just that reason but yeah. [20:47] Well Victoria it is possible. I had the same working partner for almost twenty years and then didn't have one anymore. I am now working with my 16 year old daughter in his place and she is an excellent magical partner in many while thought very inexperienced. [20:47] huh, interesting [20:47] [Owlhawk] Which, I would think, means that you are teaching her as you go. [20:47] I have been teaching while doing the work. [20:48] Does one have to have special skills to do magic? I've tried before with no success [20:48] [Owlhawk] that's a very opened ended question. [20:48] I also have another person who is very inexperienced but willing to learn that I am working with to have another option for when my daughter heads for college. [20:48] [Owlhawk] Most important thing I think to have, amongst many,, is belief that the spell will work. [20:49] What type of magic are you interested in Victoria? [20:49] i've never had much luck with "magic" or energy working or whatnot either [20:49] i don't really have a feel for it [20:49] and honestly I'm not sure it's my real focus anyway [20:49] Mostly folk magic [20:49] [Owlhawk] it is rather rare for me to actually work magic. I don't use it often. [20:49] Same here, Trent [20:49] i'm more interested in "connection" than "magic" [20:50] I may see magic differently than some. [20:50] [Owlhawk] how so? [20:50] I divide magic into two basic categories what I called "willed magic" and "spirit magic" [20:51] [Owlhawk] fair enough. can't really argue with that [20:52] So spirit magic relies on "connections" and relationships with beings from among the Kindred [20:52] To me it is the connection that is critical to spirit magic. Is this the connection you are referring to Trent? [20:52] maybe [20:53] like, i don't want to USE the connection for things, I just want to connecty [20:53] so i guess more "religion" than "magic"? [20:53] i know the two can kinda overlap [20:54] "willed magic" is most often magic in the form of prayer, spells, etc changes caused by the person doing the magic. [20:55] all rituals may not be magical in nature, but all magic is ritual [20:55] right [20:56] Why do you want to connect? [20:56] i guess that's what i think of as "magic" [20:56] *** VictoriaLaughlin (Mibbit@a6988d28.res.6ca6ab73.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:56] what is it that you think of as magic? [20:57] *** VictoriaLaughlin (Mibbit@a6988d28.res.6ca6ab73.net.hmsk) has joined #adf [20:57] the "willed magic"...casting spells to do things, and so forth [21:00] [Owlhawk] so what do you see the connection magical workings as being? [21:01] Trent...but it is not just that...this is what society has largely taught us that magic is, but it is certainly not all it is. [21:01] owlhawk: i'm not really sure...maybe also as workings [21:03] ADF ritual is both magical and religious by nature. A magical working can be added to a ritual, but even if it is not the Core Order contains magical elements. [21:03] [Owlhawk] I suspect you're limiting the definition of magic. Magic is the act of causing change in accordance with Will. The method is just that...a methodd [21:03] how would you guys define magic? [21:05] I have to go...thanks for the chat! It was interesting! [21:05] Take care [21:05] [Owlhawk] good night Victoria [21:05] Good night :) [21:05] by Victoria [21:05] bye [21:05] night victoria! [21:05] *** VictoriaLaughlin (Mibbit@a6988d28.res.6ca6ab73.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:06] hmmm [21:06] [Owlhawk] The definition I gave is from Crowley. I've used it as a general one for years. [21:06] [Owlhawk] It could be improved,but it works [21:06] Mine is a bit broader actually [21:06] Magic is [21:07] the power to influence the course of events by utilizing supernatural forces or calling upon the Powers to aid us to influence our ritual purpose. [21:08] [Owlhawk] It does. Mine doesn't get into how you do things. yours does. [21:08] So it may be in accordance with ones Will or by using ones relationships with the Kindred. [21:08] [Owlhawk] Using ones relationships with the kindreds is using ones Will. [21:09] I don't disagree with the Crowley definition at all. [21:09] i guess right now I'm not so much looking to influence things, more to just experience them [21:09] [Owlhawk] I didn't think you did. [21:09] The Kindred have their own Will and sometimes it is at odds with your own. [21:10] To give you an example...the gatekeeper and the gates in ritual. [21:10] [Owlhawk] yes they do. and that sometimes changes things.That's I think where Priesthood comes in [21:10] [Owlhawk] to things [21:11] The gatekeeper is helpful in opening the gates and early on in practice very necessary to the magical act of opening the gates. [21:11] but the gates can be opened without a gatekeeper. [21:12] So on one hand you call upon a being to cause this change and on the other you do it through your Will. [21:12] interesting [21:13] [Owlhawk] By calling on that being to cause that change you are still Willing it to happen. Your example is a difference in method. One wants the Gates open. The method of opeing changes, but not the willing of that action. [21:14] But that being can choose not to and sometimes does. [21:15] [Owlhawk] yes, which means you failed and need to examine why you failed. [21:15] yeah it would seem like it would be easier with the help of a gatekeeper... [21:17] [Owlhawk] Trent, the fun part of such discussions as this, is that both sides are right. [21:17] Maybe it is Will that we are defining differently. I see Will as concentrated thought and energy to cause a change myself. [21:18] yeah, i guess that's how i see it too [21:18] [Owlhawk] It is. I don't see it as me having to be the immediate cause of that change. [21:18] I don't often exert my Will upon any other being in the cosmos unless it is harmful and someone is going to get hurt if I do not. [21:19] I am not sure how familiar any one who is currently chatting is with the magic I am most known for and where I spend much of my magical efforts? [21:20] [Owlhawk] If I need some magic worked, and I work it myself or I perform a ritual where i aske one of my Spirit Allies to help me in achieving this magical goal, either way Willed something to hapoend and worked to make it happen [21:20] Just in case I largely work magic with the dead, for the dead and on behalf of those left behind who are grieving. [21:20] So largely I am a spirit magician [21:20] gotcha [21:20] [Owlhawk] how is the Order of the Dead going,? [21:20] However, there have been times when all that is dead is not helpful. [21:21] Just as there are those who wish us harm in the world we live in....the Otherworld is not really different. [21:22] So I have had to use Will against the will of Otherworldly beings to protect myself and others. [21:23] As for the Order...we performed our first Order funeral by request over the winter in OH. It went really well. [21:23] [Owlhawk] sorry it was needed and glad it went well [21:24] same here [21:26] It is one of those things...we just have to get use to....the sorry, we needed you guys, but we do. [21:27] it happens [21:27] It is kind of a hard place to be in sometimes. For members of the Order we always have to begin our job with people being sad. [21:28] yeah [21:29] this has been a really interesting conversation, BTW :) [21:30] I love chatting about all this stuff [21:31] [Owlhawk] Death is a part of living. Fact of life. [21:31] sure is [21:31] I've enjoyed reading....I was working on a craft project and was enjoying the convo [21:31] [Owlhawk] and chatting about this stuff is awesome. [21:31] i often don't get a lot of it, but it's still fun :) [21:31] you should ask questions! [21:31] here's your prime chance :D [21:31] [Owlhawk] Give it time Trent. It took us time to get this far. [21:31] ^ this too [21:31] [Owlhawk] and there is SO much farther to go! [21:32] for all of us [21:32] never stop learning and growing...this is what it is all about [21:32] I definitely know I still have lots to learn :) [21:32] me too [21:32] yeah [21:32] [Owlhawk] To give you an idea Trent, I read Crowley in university during the early 90's [21:32] i just obsess sometimes that i seem to be starting everything late in life [21:33] [Owlhawk] and have been thinking on that definition of his ever since. This is not a quick path [21:33] like i wasted my first 35+ years or something [21:33] [Owlhawk] no such thing as a wasted life. [21:33] [Owlhawk] unless you're a Sabres fan that is.... [21:33] [Owlhawk] :D [21:33] lol [21:33] Never wasted a training ground for later things [21:33] you may not know what you will need later [21:34] yeah [21:35] [Owlhawk] with you your past, you would not be who you are today. Learn from your past, don't regret it. [21:36] this is true [21:36] :) [21:36] [Owlhawk] And, in the incredibly important news catagory, I think I finally got the bloody awful soap taste out of one of my meads! [21:36] YEAH [21:36] ?did you use soap on your bottles" [21:37] [Owlhawk] no, it showed up after oaking. I suspect that one of the oils, i forget the exact name, started breaking down, thus producing soap. [21:37] crazy [21:38] [Owlhawk] Adding 1kg of honey seems to have helped, albiet about 2 months after it was added. i'm adding dead yeast hulls tonight to help absorb the oils and such that are the issue [21:39] [Owlhawk] the other possibility is that I was going through maltolactic fermentation and it finally finished. [21:39] well I am going to have to go for the night [21:40] It has truly been fun chatting with all of you. [21:40] [Owlhawk] \good night Carrion. I enjoy chatting with you [21:40] [Owlhawk] enjoyed [21:40] me too. Have a good night! It was nice hearing some of your perspectives! [21:40] *** CarrionMann (Mibbit@4c4ab62b.dynamic.9dcf6d32.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:41] good night everyone! [21:41] [Owlhawk] good night Sara [21:41] *** Rovena (Mibbit@6ca5ed1b.6ca5f07f.72.170.imsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:41] good night :) [21:41] *** SaraKBlackwelder (Mibbit@93581b89.tampfl.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:42] gonna head out myself, its dinner time :) [21:42] it was fun [21:42] night night :) [21:42] good night! [21:43] [Owlhawk] good night Trent [21:45] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:53] *** BonnieCyr (Mibbit@6a8c81d5.dhcp.oxfr.ma.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] *** Closed channel log for #adf at 17/03/2015 9:53:32 PM