*** Opened channel log for #ADF at 23/09/2014 7:57:35 PM [19:57] [Owlhawk] 'ello [19:57] hi [19:57] Hello [20:00] I'm starting to get sleepy already! [20:00] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@5a79652d.hsd1.mi.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:00] I go to bed early lately to get to work early [20:01] hi Rob [20:01] Hi all! [20:01] [Owlhawk] hi rob. [20:01] Understand that [20:01] [Owlhawk] Early sucks. [20:01] Hello Rob [20:01] I get up at 5 AM [20:01] [Owlhawk] My dad does that without an alarm. It made driving back from florida painful even with coffee... [20:02] ugh.....I get up at 5 too lately and i'm not dealing with it well iin that I don't get to stay up like I want to [20:04] [Owlhawk] yup. Dad'll fall asleep during the 1st quarter of Sunday night football. [20:04] [Owlhawk] 2nd at the absolute latest.... [20:05] i don't like going to bed early, but I like being done with work early [20:07] So what do people want to talk about tonight? [20:09] Ennh. Just here to answer dedicant questions. [20:10] Had an informal interview today with a local newspaper reporter. [20:12] cool! [20:12] Ah, it's getting to be that time of year. [20:12] [Owlhawk] oh? good things? [20:12] [Owlhawk] lol [20:13] Actually she decided she was to late to do Mabon and has opted for Yule. [20:13] She did a nice article a couple years back on interfaith couples [20:14] *** Thexalon (Mibbit@b07a5574.neo.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:15] Hello, party people! [20:15] Hello THexalon [20:15] [Owlhawk] Not tonight, blondie said no mead for me... [20:15] Hi! [20:15] hello! [20:16] Owlhawk: Blondie? You mean Sif's telling you to lay off the mead? [20:16] [Owlhawk] Wifie... [20:17] AFK [20:18] So, anything in particular under discussion? [20:19] Not yet [20:20] Have one you want to discuss? [20:20] Well, how about this, in the good news category: Stone Creed Grove just dedicated a gorgeous new nemeton at Tredara. [20:21] wahoo! [20:21] The goal is to have a space large enough for us to be seriously considering holding major ADF events on that property. [20:21] Excellent! [20:21] [Owlhawk] great [20:22] *** JasonM (AndChat501@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:22] And in the shameless self-promotion category, the first high day rite we held there was led by yours truly. [20:22] [Owlhawk] I saw the pics. Sounds like it went well. [20:23] Hay all [20:23] :) [20:23] Hello Jason [20:23] Hi Renova [20:23] back [20:23] Good going, Thexalon! [20:24] Rovena stupid autocorrect [20:24] Don't sweat it! My name has been spelled every way imaginable [20:24] It did go well - with a reconstructed Eleusinian Mystery initiation as the kind of high point. [20:25] Your fault for being G all creative [20:25] Although I was very explicit about one key fact: The Mystery itself was entirely UPG. [20:25] that's great! [20:25] That sounds awesome Thexalon. [20:25] [Owlhawk] It has to be. Are you going to send a copy to the DEO list? [20:25] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:26] well....I hate to say it but I'm needing to get to sleep, I am quickly fading. Have a great night y'all! [20:26] good night [20:26] Night! [20:26] [Owlhawk] good night Sara [20:26] Night Sara! [20:26] *** SaraKBlackwelder (Mibbit@6e188568.tampfl.fios.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [20:26] Night Sara [20:26] hi everyone [20:26] Hay Trent [20:27] Hello Trent [20:27] I'm thinking about seeing what the DEO has to say about it ... of course that does kinda violate the "nobody can say anything about it" part. [20:28] [Owlhawk] Well, it is an order dedicated to her and her mysteries... [20:28] how is everyone? [20:28] I doing great [20:29] First rule of the eleusinian mysteries? [20:29] [Owlhawk] What do you mean Jason? [20:29] It's like Fight Club: You don't talk about it. [20:30] [Owlhawk] ah. haven't seen that movie [20:30] Second rule is you don't write about it either. >8) [20:30] heh [20:30] Up to you whether yo post anything, Thexalon. I wouldn't mind the DEO list being used for actual discussion once in a while. [20:30] I'm so glad someone got the joke. [20:31] I'll at least post the themes I was basing it around, and why. Although I'm not really a member of DEO. [20:31] I can forward it there if needed. [20:31] [Owlhawk] or I can. [20:32] what's the DEO? [20:32] [Owlhawk] Demetrian and Eleusian Order. [20:32] Demeter-Eleusynian Order. [20:32] gotcha [20:33] So yes, they'd be the real specialists in what I was dabbling in to create public ritual, with a solid 2 weeks of study time. [20:34] Mystery work in a public ritual is difficult at best. [20:35] In this case, what I did was initiated the 3 people assisting me, and then folk could line up in front of each of them to be initiated. [20:35] So it went quicker than I was afraid it might have, otherwise. [20:36] [Owlhawk] that would tend to help move things along [20:36] The same technique my mom's church uses for midnight mass at Christmas. >8) [20:38] Cultural appropriation for the win [20:38] It's just a practicality issue. At Sirius Rising, I got to witness the disaster of "really large ritual attendance" multiplied by "1-minute thing for each person to do 1 at a time" [20:38] [Owlhawk] it's a common technique in many religions because it is effective. [20:40] interesting [20:41] Eighty people in a ritual each taking fifteen seconds to do something means the ritual just got twenty minutes longer. [20:41] Yup. But if you do it 3 at a time, it's now only 7 minutes longer. [20:42] *** Kantus (Mibbit@dbd7cd4b.hvc.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:43] One of the things the terrifies me about group ritual is my horrid logistics skills. [20:43] Evening Kantus [20:43] If it's a small group, it's much less of a problem. Especially if it's a small, experienced group. [20:43] Hello Kantus [20:43] It does take a fair amount of logistical/organizing skill to make a ritual flow well. [20:44] gotta step out for a bit [20:44] brb though [20:44] Most of the time I find myself leading public ritual it's with people from a wide array of pagan perspectives [20:45] And varying levels of commitment [20:45] What helped me a lot was some of the theatrical techniques that Kirk has been teaching in workshops this year. [20:45] *** Kantus (Mibbit@dbd7cd4b.hvc.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Client Quit] [20:46] Are the workshops on video for those of us in the boonies? [20:46] Oh, I totally missed those. [20:46] It's what allows the folk to keep the focus while you're quickly pouring the offering into a nice-looking vessel because you forgot to do so beforehand. [20:46] ADF groups get that, certainly We had 24 people on Sunday and only four had ever been to any kind of Pagan rite before. [20:47] [Owlhawk] That's quite the crowd Rob [20:47] About average size for us. [20:47] Very cool Tob [20:47] Rovena: Sadly, I don't think so. It's based on the Stanislavski techniques. [20:48] I am lucky when I have 7 people at a ritual [20:48] Owlhawk: Stone Creed is often juggling closer to 50 people. From what I hear, Sassafras and Three Cranes also contend with those kind of numbers regularly. [20:49] And Mark Bailey's group gets hundreds. [20:49] [Owlhawk] Wow. I only get anywhere near those numbers at festivals [20:50] I don't think the local groves around here get even close [20:50] Our regional festival gets 24 or so attending. [20:51] It is definitely more of a struggle to get people together in more rural areas. [20:52] I live in New England. I think I have at least 3groves within two hours [20:53] Never thought of us as rural but we are the only protogrove in the state and 3 hours from any other ADF group [20:54] There are many factors, of course. We used to get 50+ people at rituals in the late 90's, so I still feel like we're failing when we get 24. >8) [20:55] Do you have any insights as to how you draw those numbers? [20:56] Not that I'm starting a Grove anytime soon. [20:56] For us, it seems to be 3 factors: 1. We've been a consistent presence for 25 years now. 2. We're neutral ground in the ever-present witch wars. 3. The folk seem to really like the way we do ritual (it sure helps having Ian Corrigan around) [20:57] Cheater [20:57] [Owlhawk] lol [20:57] Points one and two seam reasonable at least [20:57] Consistency helps. People know that if they need us, we'll be there. [20:58] That first factor makes a really big difference - you eventually get folks used to the fact that there's an ADF high day ritual every 6-7 weeks. [20:58] I agree with Rob that consistency is important [20:59] And a lot of the regulars aren't really ADF members - we've had Troth, OTO, quite a few Wiccans, etc. [20:59] SLG's first several rituals had an attendance of two. They stuck it out, and things turned around. [20:59] Staying neutral and respectful of other groups is important [21:00] I have 3 ADfers, 1 Heathen, 1 ecletic, and two spouses. [21:01] In my humble view. That consistancy and neutrality seams like a great fit for issac's view of our future. [21:02] Agree [21:03] Rob and Thexalon, I envy your success [21:03] Many congratulations [21:04] Such things do our order proud. [21:04] I had very little to do with my grove's success. Although I'm starting to get known locally, there was an established community going before I got there. [21:05] Your the contract point in the current discussion, you get the blame / credit. [21:05] The other consistent comment that I've gotten everywhere I've traveled flying the ADF colors is that other pagans are consistently impressed with the quality of ADFer's rituals and research. [21:06] That is fantastic to hear [21:08] *** Dale_ (guest@da0a743d.new.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:08] Good evening [21:08] Hello Dale [21:08] Hi Rovena [21:09] How was your equinox? [21:09] Sadly, at this point in my life I interact with the pagan community (ADF or not) in Ver limited capacity. So I know nothing of any he public opinion of our order around here. [21:09] Hay Dale. [21:10] Hi JasonM [21:10] Ours was great and the weather is so fall like [21:10] [Owlhawk] most people in my community have never heard of it, but we are the boonies [21:10] Yup, it's completely unfair - who thought Cleveland would be a major center of, well, anything? [21:11] Same here but I am on every local pagan Facebook group trying to get the name out there [21:11] We mostly had good weather also, except for storms both Friday and Saturday evening. I also got to meet Laura who is in ADF and moved from MI to WI. [21:12] Cool. We have an ADFer who is here on a temporary job assignment who was at ritual [21:12] Ah, now I know which Dale it is. >8) [21:13] The rite went well…or at least I haven’t heard otherwise. We did have one girl get light headed from low blood sugar, and come to find out, was being treated for strep also. A bit of starch, water and time helped her along. [21:13] I was at great highland games in NH and tried to get at least a conversation going. It was a bucket of fail. [21:14] CHeese and orange juice can do wonders for low blood sugar [21:14] Hi RobHenderson. We met at Midnight Flame. [21:14] Yep, I remember. [21:14] She was a vegetarian and wouldn’t eat the cheese. In an unsual change, our waters were water, rather than mead and juice. The reason being that there was a sumbl as part of the rite, and 4 rounds of the mead horn would have been excessive ;) [21:15] JasonM, where in NH is your stomping grounds? I grew up in Manchester, which is why I ask. [21:15] We did the local Celtic Festival once and had similar levels of disinterest, Jason. [21:15] There were so many new faces, I need to go back to FB to get a picture to refresh my memory. [21:15] I am right on the ma, NH border near Newburyport [21:15] I've found that non-Druid Pagans are more likely to be interested than non-Pagan Celtophiles. [21:17] I would love, some day to augment the NH highland games Sunday blessing of the brains with a pagan right for those interested. But then again I'm a fan of pipe dreams [21:17] im back [21:17] Among other things, many non-Pagan Celtophiles are very very Catholic. However, Three Cranes apparently has picked up members at the local Irish Festival. [21:17] had to get some dinner [21:18] Food is important [21:18] Serves you right Trent, we have been making fun of you for ten minutes [21:18] yep :) [21:19] but im not a non-pagan celtophile :-P [21:19] We had a Celtophile attend our class. She was very interested until she found out we were a religious group. [21:20] weird [21:20] im actually going to a ritual this weekend [21:20] I wonder how often that happens Rovena? It seams a lot of people's celtic history stores somewhere around Bannockburn [21:21] History stops* [21:21] One thing that does make a difference as well is low commitment: People are free to just show up for our events to check us out, and leave whenever they feel like. [21:21] Given how many hundreds of people were at the 3CG ritual at Dublin Irish Fest, I'm not surprised that a couple were Pagan. >8) [21:22] yeah, i do like that about ADF stuff...back in when I was in NJ, I could go to occasional druid things in addition to my usual Wicca practice [21:22] now I just wish I had any of that around here [21:22] I can't imagine walking out in the middle of a religious observance, regardless of the faith [21:22] Last I checked with the 3CG folks I know, some of those new members weren't pagans prior to showing up and seeing that we were Reformed Reformed Druids, with no human sacrifices involved. [21:23] Reformed Reformed? [21:23] We're Isaac's reformation of the Reformed Druids of North America, and thus Reformed Reformed Druids. [21:23] I see [21:23] Really human is such a subjective term. [21:24] We don't sacrifice animals either. [21:24] do Reformed Druids only sacrifice parts of humans? :-p [21:24] Only the tasteywpa [21:24] Tasty parts [21:25] Were reformed druids, we worship bushes instead of trees. [21:25] Only brain cells via their whiskey-based "waters of life". [21:26] We worship trees. But we don't Don make social class distinctions about what constitutes a tree [21:26] heheheh [21:28] We also aren't ageist when it comes to our trees: We'll worship them both as saplings and as ex-trees. [21:29] heh [21:29] nice :) [21:29] What about acorns? [21:29] THey are pretrees [21:30] Proto-trees? [21:30] Sure, we like them too. [21:30] tree fetii [21:30] Yes proto-trees [21:31] Proto-Indo-Eurotreean? [21:31] lol [21:32] What is your position on shrubberies? [21:32] Only when delivered by the knights who say Nigh [21:32] Aspiring trees. They view the oak like we view the Shining Ones [21:33] I need a horrible [21:33] Herring [21:33] Though it may be horrible [21:34] I may need to stop now [21:34] lol [21:35] But you won't [21:35] No, probably not [21:35] I'm off, night all! [21:36] Night Rob [21:36] This is why I like the ADF, such an accepting lot [21:36] *** RobHenderson (Mibbit@5a79652d.hsd1.mi.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:36] Night Rob [21:37] It is easy to accept others who are as weird as oneself [21:37] yeah [21:37] we are a weird bunch [21:38] Actually, I've yet to meet a "normal" person. Anywhere. Every single one is weird in their own way. [21:38] Ok so on the topic of odd, or at least nonstandard. [21:38] [Owlhawk] normal is a dryer setting [21:38] I’ve met some normal people. They’re kind of boring. [21:39] I am current building out a equinox right for my family. I am strongly considering the deity of occasion as Scathatch. [21:39] Or faking it [21:40] i don't even know who that is [21:40] *** ThornUnderleaf (Mibbit@eae92ffe.prtg.in.7e44e9fb.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:40] My wife and I are up for our black belts I ninjitsu in the next six months. Scathatch is the warrior of the hidden fortress, it seams appropriate [21:40] I like it [21:41] That's not really Indo-European, though. [21:41] Irish celtic pantheon, trained McCool [21:41] Oh, never mind then. [21:42] The archetype called to me but I have little experience with her and she seams formidable [21:42] That doesn't matter in a private rite [21:42] [Owlhawk] She is a warrior Goddess. [21:43] Fan of feasts. Though I do T have time to prepare one. [21:43] [Owlhawk] Trained most of the heroes of Irish myth. [21:43] Can feasts be paid retroactively? [21:43] Yeah she pops up in passing a lot [21:44] Ninjitsu I sent indo European, but Scathatch is. [21:45] [Owlhawk] she's not ninjitsu. She's closer to samuari if you're using japanese comparisons. [21:45] I do T subscribe to the miakko baddest aspect of ninjitsu [21:45] I'm not sure if I agree with that. [21:45] Keeper of the hidden fortress, teacher of that which can not be observed [21:46] That does not sound like the formality of samurai [21:47] She also may the source of Lugh's spear [21:47] [Owlhawk] She taught warriors, not assasins. Finn, Cu Cucuhlain....all the great warriors studied under her. [21:48] The ninja assassin mythos is a19th century Hollywood construct [21:49] They were largely farmers trying not to get crushed, at least till the rise of iashi togogawa [21:49] Please pardon my batching of his holiness iashi [21:49] [Owlhawk] holly wood didn't exisit in the 19th century [21:50] [Owlhawk] but, anyway, I'd read up on her some more. She's definitely a warrior goddess. [21:50] Hollywood construct of 19th century mythos [21:51] I find limited sources, any direction would be most welcome [21:52] [Owlhawk] Start with a good book on Irish myths and then go from there. [21:53] [Owlhawk] I'd also check with the Celtic mailing list. [21:53] this is all very interesting :) [21:53] Recommendations? I've read the book of invasions and the mabinogii. Any further would be welcome [21:54] There's a nice list of them for the Dedicant's Program. [21:54] The Celtic Heroic Age was my favorite of those, and quite thorough. [21:56] Need to bid y'all a good night. Last one out, lock up. [21:57] good night :) [21:57] [Owlhawk] good night [21:57] In my daily rights when I baseach her for blessing I consistently pull Or and coll from ogham staves, both meaning G creativity. No idea what to make of that. [21:57] Night rovena [21:59] gotta get going myself [21:59] Admittedly my divination is most basic [21:59] Night Trent [21:59] *** TrentDirenna (Mibbit@37bcff35.dhcp.trlk.ca.4e125616.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [21:59] Time to head out. Good night all. [21:59] [Owlhawk] good night [21:59] *** Dale_ (guest@da0a743d.new.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Dale_] [22:01] Au revoir, mes amis [22:02] *** Thexalon (Mibbit@b07a5574.neo.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:03] [Owlhawk] I don't know Ogham so I can't help you there. [22:03] *** rovena (Mibbit@14055b31.6ca5ec7e.174.33.imsk) has quit IRC [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [22:04] Eh I'm sure I will be corrected if I head down the wrong path. [22:05] Intro the faith part of it all. [22:05] [Owlhawk] You could probably get some good leads from some CR groups on facebook [22:08] Ah Facebook the roos of consistency [22:08] Root. [22:08] All snark aside [22:09] [Owlhawk] There's some good celtic groups. Sean Harbough is on a few of them. [22:10] This species to UPG. What to the Gods want from us collectively and individually and do those goals need to have a a common end point [22:10] Speakers to UPG [22:11] Wow. Autocorrect and I clearly have different agendas today [22:14] Please note that I make no assertions about knowing the will of the Shining Ones [22:15] Merely a wonderment at the intricacy of the design [22:19] *** JasonM (AndChat501@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Bye] [22:19] *** JasonM (AndChat501@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [22:21] So when do you expect your first snow QD. [22:21] Owl? [22:22] [Owlhawk] Considering Calgary has already been shut down by a blizzard, I expect anytime from now until Samhain. [22:24] Oh wow. Iwas [22:24] I was I MO trea [22:24] Damit [22:25] I was I Montreal a week ago and it was beautiful [22:28] All right. I'm off for the night. See you all next week [22:28] [Owlhawk] good night [22:28] *** JasonM (AndChat501@afb43f9a.hsd1.ma.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has quit IRC [Quit: Bye] *** Closed channel log for #ADF at 23/09/2014 10:29:04 PM *** Opened channel log for #ADF at 30/09/2014 7:38:28 PM *** Closed channel log for #ADF at 30/09/2014 7:38:30 PM