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[19:52] <rovena> Hello Sara
[19:52] <SaraKBlackwelder> hello! how are you tonight?
[19:52] <rovena> Doing okay.  How are you?
[19:53] <SaraKBlackwelder> oh fine, just doing fun things like job searching
[19:53] <rovena> Good luck with that.  It is never fun.
[19:54] <SaraKBlackwelder> it isn't, the good news is I have a great job, I'm just looking to supplement and pick up more clients
[19:54] <SaraKBlackwelder> preferably closer to home
[19:55] <rovena> That's good.
[19:55] <SaraKBlackwelder> it is :)
[20:07] <rovena> Small crowd tonight
[20:08] <SaraKBlackwelder> yea it is.....was just thinking it was only 8, but 10 past now.
[20:12] <rovena> Maybe people don't like having topics.
[20:13] <SaraKBlackwelder> did owlhawk post to fb like normal?
[20:14] <SaraKBlackwelder> I don't know why, it's nice to have that outline
[20:14] <SaraKBlackwelder> it is hospitality tonight yes?
[20:14] <rovena> No he is on the road.
[20:14] <rovena> Yes hospitality is
[20:16] <SaraKBlackwelder> I see, well I just bumped it in the general group
[20:16] <SaraKBlackwelder> maybe someone will pop over when they see that
[20:17] <rovena> I am hitting some others as well
[20:18] <rovena> Love team work
[20:20] <SaraKBlackwelder> :)
[20:21] <SaraKBlackwelder> it is a great thing!
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[20:30] <rovena> Hello Drum
[20:30] <SaraKBlackwelder> hey Drum!
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[20:30] <Drum> Hi!!!
[20:30] <Dale> Hi Drum
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[20:31] <rovena> Hello Dale
[20:31] <rovena> Hello Sean
[20:31] <Dale> Hi Rovena
[20:31] <seanmacdhai> hello
[20:31] <SaraKBlackwelder> Sean!  hi!
[20:31] <seanmacdhai> Hi Sara! I saw your post in the FB forum :)
[20:31] <Drum> How is everyone?
[20:31] <SaraKBlackwelder> woot!
[20:32] <seanmacdhai> gods IRC takes me back to the 90's when pagans were all hi tech in newsgroups and stuff!
[20:32] <seanmacdhai> lol
[20:32] <SaraKBlackwelder> lol....yea my hubby thinks it's funny we use irc
[20:32] <SaraKBlackwelder> doing good Drum, you?
[20:32] <Drum> I am a-ok
[20:32] <seanmacdhai> still works! i was on a celtic group back then. imbas or something.
[20:32] <seanmacdhai> hi Drum!
[20:33] <Drum> Hello, Sean. Welcome back!
[20:33] <seanmacdhai> :)
[20:35] <seanmacdhai> is everyone getting ready for Lughnasa/Lammas?
[20:35] <seanmacdhai> or Kronia for the Hellenes :)
[20:35] <SaraKBlackwelder> sure am....getting the grove together to work on the ritual friday :)
[20:36] <rovena> Yes
[20:36] <seanmacdhai> where are you at now Sara? are you still in Tampa?
[20:36] <SaraKBlackwelder> yup.  we hold rituals off of Bearrs
[20:36] <seanmacdhai> ah very cool!
[20:37] <SaraKBlackwelder> I know we aren't super close, but you should come over sometime :)
[20:37] <Dale> Perhaps someone here might be able to point me in the right direction.  I’m looking up source material for our Lughnasadh rite, and I have been reading through the Second Battle of Moytura.  In there is the spell that Miach used to regrow Nuada’s arm.  ‘Joint to joint of it and sinew to sinew’.  However, I’ve seen a more exhaustive spell than just those two stanzas on a Celtic Pagan group.  Every copy I’ve found online, including one
[20:37] <Dale> earlier translations in Revue Celtique only have those two stanzas.  Is there an unabbridged version somewhere, or did others make up the rest of them that I saw?
[20:38] <seanmacdhai> yah I know. I am over there all the time. we have family.
[20:38] <Drum> Dale, hmmm, good question!
[20:39] <seanmacdhai> yah good question. I am looking through some notes. I have a lot of CR friends, I can ask.
[20:39] <SaraKBlackwelder> well then!!  next ritual is 8/3 for us
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[20:39] <bookworm> Good evening
[20:40] <rovena> Hello!
[20:40] <bookworm> How's it going?
[20:41] <seanmacdhai> great!
[20:41] <seanmacdhai> do links work here? Dale look at this: http://hedgeconfessions.com/2013/04/10/the-bone-charm-conference-notes/
[20:41] <Dale> It’s not important for this holiday (which we’re holding this weekend), but my curiosity is now fully engaged (and my sleep therefore has been depleated)
[20:44] <seanmacdhai> also this one, by a CR friend of mine (and member of ADF): http://lairbhan.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-message-of-dian-cecht-and-miach.html
[20:44] <seanmacdhai> and now I know that links work here :)
[20:44] <Dale> :)
[20:47] <rovena> What is the next question we can tackle?
[20:48] <seanmacdhai> hehe
[20:49] <Drum> :)
[20:49] <SaraKBlackwelder> we can talk about hospitality  :)
[20:50] <bookworm> How fun
[20:51] <bookworm> :)
[20:51] <seanmacdhai> the one common theme in most western religions. hospitality.
[20:52] <rovena> What would you like to say about hospitality?
[20:52] <Dale> Seanmacdhai, I like that explination, espically about the impertinence of youth, and had been wondering about the reasons that Dian Ceacht would kill his son.  I do wonder, however, if the story had changed over time due to the Christinization of the people, and the killing of his son added later.
[20:54] <SaraKBlackwelder> I find that hospitality is something I feel strongly about, and try to hold up.....but I find it hardest when there is family invading my home for a prolonged period
[20:54] <SaraKBlackwelder> granted......they don't usually hold up their end of hospitality, so that is taxing
[20:55] <seanmacdhai> family is taxing, period ;p
[20:55] <SaraKBlackwelder> lol so true, especially inlaws
[20:55] <Dale> Regarding guests, do you think that anybody who shows up at your house is a guest, or just those you choose to associate with?
[20:55] <bookworm> I think the problem is that we do not all have the same definition of hospitality. For some guests they do not feel like they owe the host anything. If the host expects them to be polite, helpful etc and they do not think the same there is a disconnect
[20:56] <rovena> Very true
[20:57] <rovena> It can get very tense when everyone isn't playing by the rules
[20:57] <bookworm> @Dale- any I invite into my home is a guest. example - I dont consider the mailman a guest
[20:57] <SaraKBlackwelder> good points.  Dale, I would say if they are not there strictly for business they are a guest (either way I will still try my best)
[20:57] <seanmacdhai> and hospitality used to serve a differnt purpose, back when there were no inns or hotels, hospitality to travelers could mean life or death.
[20:58] <rovena> Now a days it can mean the life or death of community
[20:58] <SaraKBlackwelder> bookworm, so true! there is often that disconnect between host and guest
[20:58] <seanmacdhai> agreed rovena!
[20:58] <Dale> I think more along the lines of Odin, for instance, who has traveled as a beggar, and judges people for their hospitality or lack of.  Should a begger expect hospitality?
[20:59] <rovena> Yes.
[21:00] <SaraKBlackwelder> I don't let strangers in my house.....too dangerous, but I would give someone some water or food if they needed it
[21:00] <rovena> There are degrees of hospitality
[21:01] <seanmacdhai> there are many gods and beings that travel in disguse as beggars. there is even a line in the bible about being kind to strange travelers, as they may be angels in disguise.
[21:02] <Drum> I heartily agree
[21:02] <rovena> When dealing wiht others we need to learn what they need.  Many homeless want to be treat with dingnity more than given a handout
[21:02] <Drum> One never knows how the Gods will manifest: animal, mineral, vegetable, human, insect...
[21:02] <Dale> Depending on when and where you lived, hospitality to a stranger could be a matter of life or death for them…but providing for the stranger could harm the community.
[21:03] <rovena> How does it harm the community?
[21:04] <Drum> Well folks, I have to do some after hours work...it was great seeing everyone and thank you for the great questions!
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[21:04] <rovena> Night Drum
[21:04] <seanmacdhai> sorry that other one is me too. just switching to my ipad
[21:04] <Dale> Bye Drum
[21:04] <seanmacd_> Bye Drum!
[21:04] <SaraKBlackwelder> night drum!
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[21:06] <Dale> If it were winter and the food stores were barely sufficient (or perhaps even insufficient) to last them through the winter.  The arrival of a stranger and the correponding mouth to feed could affect the survival or health of other members of the community.
[21:06] <seanmacdhai> Our social security (as in safety net) now comes from the government,mt
[21:07] <seanmacdhai> Rather than our local community.
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[21:08] <Dale> Most of the people in the US don’t live so close to the threshold of survival and so the example probalby isn’t realistic for the modern world, but, trying to consider the virtues in the context of the past, I think is a useful exercise.
[21:09] <seanmacdhai> Yes, agreed. Even on the street here, I could survive pretty easy.
[21:12] <seanmacdhai> All I would have to sacrifice is pride.
[21:16] <rovena> May, we have gotten quiet
[21:16] <seanmacdhai> I was playing with IRC. Haven't done this in a while, lol
[21:17] <seanmacdhai> I forgot all the commands
[21:17] <seanmacdhai> auto-reconnect was nice back when I had a 14.4 modem, lol
[21:20] <SaraKBlackwelder> sorry, I'm realizing my brain is tired.
[21:21] <Dale> I’m having popcorn, and avoiding getting the keyboard covered in butter.
[21:22] <rovena> Air popped gives you a clean keyboard
[21:23] <seanmacdhai> haha put your face to the bowl and eat it horse style ;p
[21:23] <SaraKBlackwelder> yumm...popcorn sound delicious right now
[21:24] <bookworm> i'm multi tasking with online classes :(
[21:24] <seanmacdhai> What kins do we have in here? I'm Gael and Welsh.
[21:24] <SaraKBlackwelder> norse, gael, and hellenic
[21:24] <rovena> Celt
[21:25] <seanmacdhai> Sara I think I'm in Hellenic too. White Owl.
[21:26] <bookworm> celtic
[21:26] <seanmacdhai> The e-lists have been quiet lately.
[21:26] <seanmacdhai> I think everyone prefers Facebook now
[21:26] <SaraKBlackwelder> yup, that seems to be what is happening.....though there is no way to archive on fb
[21:27] <seanmacdhai> The FB groups used to be nicer. I am also in OBOD and we mostly use a message board.
[21:27] <seanmacdhai> Those feel so dated now.
[21:29] <bookworm> i actually like the e-lists and wish they were a bit more active
[21:29] <SaraKBlackwelder> we now have forums, but I have no idea how to get to them or use them properly.....granted I haven't tried too hard because I prefer the emails.
[21:29] <bookworm> we have forums?
[21:29] <seanmacdhai> I don't think so. Just the elists.
[21:29] <SaraKBlackwelder> brand new
[21:29] <SaraKBlackwelder> we do, they just went live
[21:29] <seanmacdhai> Oh we do? Nice!
[21:30] <SaraKBlackwelder> there were a few emails on announce I believe
[21:30] <seanmacdhai> Let me look real quick
[21:30] <rovena> I think that our elists have a forum function as well
[21:31] <bookworm> I think I missed that email. Does anyone have a link?
[21:31] <seanmacdhai> Yah I don't see it on the main site either
[21:31] <bookworm> I know I looked on the main site but did not see anything
[21:32] <seanmacdhai> I haven't gotten any email in several days. I am only on a few lists tho... Announce, Druidry, Welsh, Celt.
[21:33] <seanmacdhai> I found it https://www.adf.org/webforum/
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[21:34] <SaraKBlackwelder> that is not easy to find lol
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[21:34] <bookworm> oh awesome
[21:34] <seanmacdhai> Oh I was able to log in with my site username and password
[21:34] <seanmacdhai> Yah it's hidden on the page with the email groups
[21:35] <seanmacdhai> It's on this page: https://www.adf.org/forums/lists/index.html
[21:36] <bookworm> well thank you for the links. I need to head off and work on hw for a bit
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[21:36] <bookworm> take care all
[21:37] <SaraKBlackwelder> ok, on that note.....i need to get moving to bed.  have a great night!
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[21:37] <seanmacdhai> Yes, it's my reading time, then bed!
[21:37] <seanmacdhai> G'night all! Peace :)
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[21:37] <rovena> Looks like I get to lock up tonight.
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[21:42] <zekra> hi all
[21:43] <zekra> anyone know a good drinking song
[21:43] <Dale> Hi Zekra
[21:44] <zekra> hi dale
[21:44] <Dale> No, I don’t know any good drinking songs…though drunk is probably the only way one could enjoy my singing, and even then that’s not guaranteed.
[21:45] <zekra> nonsense....im sure half drunk will do
[21:46] <zekra> speaking of beverages,
[21:46] <Dale> lol
[21:46] <zekra> have you ever been to an RDNA mass?
[21:47] <zekra> hows about you owlhawk?
[21:48] <Dale> No.  Even my ADF experience has been our local group.  I’m hoping this fall to get to an ADF rite that I’m not leading.  I’d like to see how others do it.
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[21:50] <zekra> I really like seeing other types of ritual and ceremony, its a curios hobby.
[21:50] <zekra> hiya william
[21:51] <William> Hi Zekra how are you to day
[21:54] <Dale> I’ve been to Wiccan and Northern Trad, along with a CR one, quite a long time ago.
[21:55] <zekra> im great william
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[21:56] <zekra> CR?
[21:56] <treeblood> Finally, I'm on! (waves to all)
[21:57] <zekra> hi
[21:57] <treeblood> 'allo.
[21:57] <treeblood> How's you? What's the current convo?
[21:57] <William> hi
[21:58] <treeblood> Hello to you.
[21:58] <zekra> nothing just talking about drinking, and types of ceremony.
[21:58] <Dale> CR = Celtic Reconstruction
[21:59] <treeblood> Ah, okay.
[21:59] <Dale> That was back in 2000.  I don’t remember much of it anymore.
[21:59] <zekra> d,oh I shoulda known that...im just recently digging into that stuff
[22:00] <zekra> tree have you been to many different types of ceremony?
[22:01] <treeblood> Read about many, only been to a few within paganism.
[22:01] <Dale> Oh, and OBOD
[22:01] <treeblood> Been to many types of Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian ritual.
[22:01] <treeblood> Eh, I take that back, I've been to quite a few pagan ones.
[22:01] <zekra> I gotta check out an obod group here to see that kind of ceremony.
[22:02] <treeblood> Any particular ones we're talking about?
[22:03] <zekra> lol nope but I was gonna include drinking to that que. how many of the ceremonies involved drinking?
[22:03] <Dale> I found it quite reminicient of Wiccan rituals.  I do hope to attend an AODA one next year, if I can convience our one lone AODA druid in the area to hold one.
[22:05] <zekra> interesting, what parts ?reminded you of wiccan rituals
[22:06] <William> Were is everyone area? I am in Las Vegas NV
[22:06] <Dale> Appleton, WI (about 20 miles south of Green Bay)
[22:06] <zekra> northern minnesota
[22:07] <treeblood> I'm in Hurricane, UT. 2 hours from Las Vegas.
[22:07] <treeblood> Probably a fifth of the rituals included drinking, now that I think about it.
[22:07] <zekra> HA there are no hurricanes in Utah! you are pullin my leg!
[22:08] <treeblood> Bahahahaha :|
[22:09] <treeblood> They pronounce as "Hurr-a-kin"
[22:09] <treeblood> *pronounce it
[22:09] <treeblood> I've lived in Dallas and in the South for most of my life.
[22:09] <treeblood> I certainly don't consider myself an emic member of this community.
[22:09] <William> I have not been to any other rituals than the ones for my grove . however I am interested in others.
[22:12] <Dale> The eclictic rituals at the large festivals I’ve attended have been very flashy, but not spiritually fulfilling.
[22:12] <zekra> I have seen OTO(gnostic) ceremonies, wiccan, a couple native American ceremonies
[22:12] <Dale> Entertaining, and fun, yes, but that’s not the purpose I look for in ritual.
[22:14] <treeblood> What purposes do each of us seek in ritual?
[22:14] <zekra> with a mass of 100 or more I would not expect anything less then flashy to capture audience attention. and it needs to hold your interest...
[22:14] <treeblood> I personally like seeing an entire community commune with the divine together, as well as an ability for an individual to connect with their view of the divine across that communal experience.
[22:15] <treeblood> Ritual and community go hand in hand for me, but it doesn't necessarily have to.
[22:15] <treeblood> It can be a form of greater expression of love to your gods.
[22:16] <zekra> i think that expression is also magic, and so therefor "putting on a good show" for the gods seems important for me.
[22:17] <Dale> To me, it seems more of a pagent, than a sacred rite; each year trying to out do the previous.
[22:18] <zekra> that is a juxtaposition i need to meditate on dale.
[22:20] <Dale> I think that putting on a good show is important.  When interacting with the kindred, we should strive to do our best.  Even so, there is a line that when crossed make the ritual less meaningfull spiritually and more ….. contrived…. I don’t think that’s the right word for it.  Gaudy, pompus….I’m not sure.  I like ADF rituals where there is a bidirectional flow of energy with the kindred.  Ecletic rituals seem to me more a taking of
[22:20] <Dale> energy, and possibly releasing it into the world for a purpose, but I don’t sense a flow back to to the kindred.
[22:22] <treeblood> I've seen flow back to the kindred in most of the non-ADF pagan rituals that I've seen, but I have seen ones where energy, power, love, etc were taken and not given back.
[22:22] <treeblood> When I've taken energy and not returned it in kind, it's never ended well for me.
[22:23] <zekra> and why tip the scales
[22:24] <treeblood> Possibly due to faith and/or belief that the kindreds have infinite energy to give.
[22:25] <treeblood> IME, nothing does. Something may have much more energy than something else, but again, in my experience, nothing has infinite power.
[22:25] <William> I agree that the public rituals should have good show. I do believe we have to on our own for relationship with gods and others between each ritual. sorry I know I am behind
[22:28] <zekra> so in retrospect proper care should be given with ebb and flow of energies during a ceremony. when would it be ok to not have good flow of a ritual...
[22:30] <zekra> k peeps nice chatting i gotta go. night all
[22:30] <Dale> Good night.
[22:30] <zekra> and Slainte'
[22:30] <William> ood night
[22:31] <William> good
[22:31] <zekra> :)
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[22:45] <Dale> Time to finish up our Lughnasadh rite, since we’re holding it this weekend.  Good night.
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[22:45] <William> good night dale
[22:58] <William>  /away.
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