Session Start: Sat Nov 07 19:31:43 2009 Session Ident: #ADF [19:31] * Now talking in #ADF [19:31] * Topic is 'Open Chat starts at 7pm central time' [19:31] * Set by Blesseddruidess on Tue Oct 20 18:08:03 [19:32] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello [19:35] * Ankaru (IceChat7@6ca5ecd9.6ca5ed79.12.229.imsk) has joined #ADF [19:35] Hello [19:35] <@Blesseddruidess> hello [19:36] I wish I knew about this channel when I first joined ADF [19:36] <@Blesseddruidess> we just got it back up and going [19:36] I see. Very nice. [19:37] * Looking up RevMJD user info... [19:38] <@Blesseddruidess> yeah it has helped many connect with all [19:39] Anyways, I was pretty confused as to what to start with when I joined up. [19:39] <@Blesseddruidess> do you have the new dp or old one? [19:39] not sure [19:40] <@Blesseddruidess> when did you join again? [19:40] around March of this year [19:40] <@Blesseddruidess> you may have the new one, was it thick and green cover [19:41] it looks dark green [19:41] <@Blesseddruidess> that is the new one [19:41] okay then [19:42] <@Blesseddruidess> the best way to start is to just pick one of the areas, like one of the three books [19:44] <@Blesseddruidess> For instance, I used the wheel of the year Michael did, but got off it towards the end [19:45] From what I understand, not all druids believe the same things, such as dieties and the way the world works. [19:45] <@Blesseddruidess> you can find that at http://www.adf.org/members/training/dp/publications/ but he is in the process of redoing it to match the new dp [19:45] <@Blesseddruidess> true, each culture has their own, but the fundamentals and the core is usually the same [19:47] In my case, my main diety is the Earth Mother, with the Sun God at her side and the four elemental lords guarding her. [19:47] Ankaru, I'd suggest that while we ma not all *believe* alike, we tend to *assume* alike, at least in ritual space. [19:49] The article I wrote about "nine tenets of druidic ritual" (on the ADF site) was based on identifying those assumptions. [19:50] I have have been to a ritual before, though it was Wiccan. [19:50] I believe it was for the harvest moon [19:52] * AnakinBarrett (AnakinBarr@d138de50.dyn.3daf53dc.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:52] * ADFGuest1788 (ADFGuest17@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:52] <@Blesseddruidess> Hell yall [19:53] hello everyone:-) [19:53] hello [19:53] * ADFGuest1788 (ADFGuest17@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) Quit (Client Quit) [19:53] <@Blesseddruidess> the ADF rituals are different then Wicca, there is a very good one on YouTube [19:53] * TwilightPhoenix (TwilightPh@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [19:54] I have yet to bve at a Druidic ritual. the closest one I knew about was in Kansas City, Missouri. [19:54] Good evening everyone. [19:54] Ankaru- where are you living? [19:54] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello [19:54] Kansas. [19:55] It's a two hour drive to KC. [19:55] First time I've used the chat... [19:55] same here TwilightPhoenix [19:55] <@Blesseddruidess> welcome, I hope yall enjoy it [19:55] i think i have done this once before... [19:55] Thanks, appreciate it. I'm pretty new and out in the middle of nowhere so glad to learn what I can learn. [19:55] * TwilightPhoenix (RowanRaven@6ca5ecdb.6ca5ec9b.67.233.imsk) has joined #ADF [19:56] I will most likely be here every day [19:56] I'll be driving out to KS this winter, I suspect. Likely right past you, Ankaru. It'll be a whirlwind trip, but if it would work out, I would be available for a stop in a local coffee shop. [19:56] Well, I am in the Army, so I don't know how you can get to me. [19:56] <@Blesseddruidess> brb, need a drink before we get going to far [19:57] Well, if you're on base (let me guess, Fort Riley?), I can't, but if you can go off-base, I might be able to stop somewhere near. Ah, well, it's a thought. [19:57] yes, fort riley [19:58] Well, if you wanna try, drop me a line later, and we'll see if something can be set up. If not, then no worries ;) [19:58] I might be able to get a friend to drop me off at the cannon hill right outside the gate on the way to Junction City [19:58] oh wait, I won't be here in December [19:59] Ah, well. Worth a shot. [19:59] (I know the cannon well) [20:00] <@Blesseddruidess> Where will you be in December? [20:01] @Blesseddruidess, I have 8 PM EST. I presume you'll "start us off"? [20:01] Massachusetts [20:02] <@Blesseddruidess> Yes, everyone Rev. MJD, or Micheal is our guest tonight, why don't you start by telling us about you then we will do a q and a [20:02] K. I'll actually start with a prayer. Short, because I'm typing. Then I'll do the rest: [20:02] May the gods bestow upon us good food, strength, and riches. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings. [20:04] Hi. I'm Mike (or Rev. Michael J Dangler, or MJD, or "that jerk who keeps putting out stuff he thinks the rest of us want to read"). I'm a former SD and current Grove Priest for Three Cranes Grove, ADF, current Dedicant Priest (just finished CTP Circle 2) and Clergy Council Preceptor. [20:04] I think that about covers me. [20:04] I do other odds and ends around ADF, but nothing particularly strenuous. [20:05] <@Blesseddruidess> and you are an initiate [20:06] * Ankaru is not sure he understood all that [20:06] Oh, yeah. I'm one of those, too. I forgot ;) It's been a whirlwind couple of weeks, with completion of CTP 2, the IP, and becoming the CC Preceptor. I tend to have a short memory. [20:06] Can I further explain something, Ankaru? I'm more than happy to. [20:07] hmmm...about the grove thing, I suppose. I'm new to ADF and all. [20:07] * Rovena (IceChat7@14055b33.6ca5f05c.97.72.imsk) has joined #ADF [20:07] Ah. Being a "Grove Priest" is a local office I hold. It's not an ADF office. most of the work I do for ADF is actually local, believe it or not. [20:09] Ah okay. [20:09] please continue then. [20:09] <@Blesseddruidess> How many are new to ADF tonight? [20:10] I am new [20:10] I think I was mostly done. :) I do surprisingly little around ADF, in my own opinion. [20:10] i am under a year with adf [20:10] I'll hit the decade mark in April, in terms of "length of time in ADF" [20:10] <@Blesseddruidess> Michael, where would you recomend a new person to start in ADF and doing the DP? [20:11] Every person works a bit differently, and there are a *lot* of differnet learning types. Some people learn best with a structured plan, and some learn best with a fluid directional notion. ADF, fortunately, supports both directions. [20:12] The best place to start is the DP book, Our Own Druidry (vastly superior to what I had when I started). Reading through that will give you a great idea of where to go. [20:12] I have been with ADF not quite 2 years. [20:12] I guess I would be in the structured category then. [20:13] I am more of a hnds on person [20:13] I usually do better to start structured, to learn the basics, then expand on my own. [20:13] I'm mostly a hands on person... [20:13] Students who want less structure are well-served with Our Own Druidry alone. Students seeking more are often well-served by the DP Through the Wheel of the Year document, which lays out a "schedule" with "homework". [20:13] Unfortunately with my location and work/life schedule I don't have much networking opportunity. [20:14] Those who want some structure, and then to break off and go their own way can start with the WotY document and then move away rom it, or use it as a reference. [20:14] * JamesGoodwin (IceChat7@7378b11b.neo.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:14] hello everyone [20:14] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello [20:14] Good evening. [20:14] hello [20:15] I live to far away to get to anyone to really help me and with three little boys I have trouble getting started... [20:15] did I miss anything good? [20:15] :) [20:15] I sympathize greatly, AnakinBarrett. [20:15] Three kids is enough to cause anyone to have difficulty getting started. :) [20:15] *L* [20:15] I wish I had a car to be able to do stuff. [20:16] I thought about trying the reading first but can't afford any of the books... [20:16] I'm planning to travel to visit a Grove at some point next year. [20:16] What sort of things have you managed to do, AnakinBarrett, and where have you run into roadblocks in the past? [20:17] If you ask at your local library, they may actually order the books for you. I've done that several times with books here, and have found that librarians *love* it when people request that they order books. They like to know what people want to read. [20:17] Then you can check them out and read them for free. [20:17] (our library has an online form where you can submit books for purchase) [20:18] I am in Branson and the very thought of a "non-christian" book makes them cry... [20:18] Branson, MO? [20:18] See, though: you're ordering books on archeology, at least for the IE stuff :) [20:18] Clever. [20:18] right now I am trying to just get a grip on the Gods and Goddess. My oldest is really into it so we are doing it together [20:19] they won't even carry greek mythology [20:19] Good :) More interested kids is very good indeed. [20:19] <@Blesseddruidess> Yes kids are our future [20:19] Check out: http://www.adf.org/cgi-bin/adf/wiki/view/Main/DedicantLibrary [20:20] There are some people willing to loan out books to Dedicants via the post. The page may not have been updated recently, so I'm not sure all those books are available/in circulation. But at least a few should be. [20:20] * Speedwell (Speedwell@9f02f020.hsd1.nm.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:21] thanx! i will check it out [20:21] * RandiBorg (RandiBorg@58274dd7.dsl.chi2ca.3e6fd2e2.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:22] welcome Speedwell and RandiBorg [20:22] I have a few books, too, that aren't on that list, that I could loan out, I imagine. I'd just have to dig them up. [20:22] Our Grove is building a small lending library [20:22] that would be great! [20:22] <@Blesseddruidess> Welcome all [20:22] I have a list to take to ritual tomorrow for one of the Grovies to borrow [20:22] Thanks for the welcome...sorry I am late [20:23] and I would gladly let others in ADF borrow them if needed (as long as they promise to ship them back when they are done with them) [20:23] <@Blesseddruidess> What is the one thing you would advice to those starting? And those been at it for a bit of time? [20:24] 1) Get a subscription to Oak Leaves. It has so many good articles, and it's an awesome resource. [20:24] 2) If you somehow managed to skip it, hit up http://www.adf.org/members/new/ . The webteam put it together to try and help people get a sort of "quick start" to ADF and answer questions in a more "human" way. [20:25] Oak Leaves has been a great help for me. [20:25] I haven't subscribed to it yet. [20:25] <@Blesseddruidess> It is a wonderful source of information [20:26] I do a dance for three days when I get mine... [20:26] 3) Submit items to Oak Leaves. These could be poems you've written, pictures you've taken or drawn, or articles. One of the things I like most about ADF is that we treat pretty much everyone equally, regardless of path in the Org or time in it, and OL is a great place to put an idea out and have it heard. [20:27] so I could put my poetry in it? [20:27] <@Blesseddruidess> Yes [20:27] hmmm... [20:27] You can submit poetry, yes. The submission guidelines are at http://www.adf.org/publications/periodicals/oak-leaves/submissions.html [20:28] does it matter if I already posted them online? [20:28] Nope. Heck, nearly everything I write ends up on my website as well as the ADF site and in OL, when I can get it in. :) [20:28] okay then. [20:29] 4) Don't worry about where you're going in ADF, just about where you are. Everyone in ADF starts out in the same place: $25 less in the bank account and a whole new world opened before their eyes. It can be overwhelming, so start by understanding where you are. . . and once you know that, start moving forward. [20:31] A lot of people get overwhelmed by the amount of stuff on the website, or the amount of scholarship some of our members display on the lists. Everyone gets to where they know the website, and everyone gets to where they can speak with authority about something on the lists. [20:32] Ceisiwr Serith once told me that the best thing about ADF is that "everyone in ADF is a walking encyclopedia; they just don't know what the topic of their encyclopedia is yet, in some cases." It's really a beautiful process, watching people figure out what it is that they know best, and to hear them start to really develop it. [20:32] I know alot about the Army. Does that count? [20:33] It does. At some point or another, we're going to apply for a military chaplain. . . and having members who know about the army will be *invaluable* at that point. There are actually a number of members in the military (in different countries, even). [20:33] Then perhaps you recognize the spiritual needs of people like yourself. [20:34] I was actually going to apply to be a Chaplain, but I need a masters degree in Theology if I remember correctly. [20:35] And an eccalastical endorsement, which the US Government has a narrow interpretation of what qualifies. [20:35] Yes, that is a requirement. I think a "Masters of Divinity" is the official requirment, and it needs to be accredited, which is the real stumbling block for us. [20:35] Darn. [20:35] M.Div or M.Th and also sponsership by an approved organization [20:35] Cherry Hill Seminary is on the way there, though. It's a matter of time before we have a valid MDiv for Pagan clergy. [20:36] I guess I'll just stick with my current MOS then. [20:36] which is? [20:36] 25B: Information Technology Specialist [20:37] <-- was 63D10-H8 (Self Propelled Feild Artilary Mechanic, Recovery Vehicle Specialist) not a lot of real world experience in that job :) [20:37] long title [20:38] yeah, lol [20:38] * JamesDillard (JamesDilla@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:38] especially for a wrench turner [20:38] Oh, I dunno. I tend to think that the maintenance of self propelled field artilery is fascinating. But then, my degree is in military history [20:38] Hi Seamus [20:38] <@Blesseddruidess> Hey Seamus [20:38] yeah, Michael, it was a great experience. Don't regret it in the least [20:38] hey guys [20:39] * TwilightPhoenix (TwilightPh@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: TwilightPhoenix) [20:39] <@Blesseddruidess> So MJD what kind of projects are you working on right now? [20:39] * TwilightPhoenix (TwilightPh@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:39] hello [20:39] is it too early for me to ask the Clergy Question? [20:39] Welcome [20:39] lol [20:39] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [20:39] So, that's the general advice I have for new members. Projects? Oh, I have plenty of those. [20:39] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:40] What clergy question, and would you like to ask it now, or after I discuss projects? [20:40] projects? ha [20:40] (the real question with projects is "how many will I finish," not "what am I working on," really) [20:40] true [20:40] <@Blesseddruidess> I hear that [20:41] oh I think you will most of them done [20:41] knowing you [20:41] I always ask our guests (when I have been able to attend) what do you see as the role fo Clergy in ADF? [20:41] I gtg. Thank you being so nice. [20:41] Hi Lees and TwilightPheonix [20:42] hi jamie :) [20:42] Take care Ankaru [20:42] <@Blesseddruidess> Kindreds bless, Ankaru, see ya later! [20:42] bye Ankaru [20:42] jamie are talking about clery rolls...they are good with coffee [20:42] * Ankaru (IceChat7@6ca5ecd9.6ca5ed79.12.229.imsk) Quit (Quit: Bye for now and thanks again. =^_^=) [20:42] Hey Jamie. [20:42] Current projects would be things like a) The ADF Order of the Crane , b) grading papers as the CC Preceptor, c) completing revisions on the Grove Devotional Book [20:43] Congrats, by the way, on the CC Preceptor job [20:43] At least, those are the ones off the top of my head. has a pretty complete lit [20:43] er, list [20:44] Fortunately, the role of the IE priest hasn't ever been overly clear: "Who is the Priest? Is he the Priest of Yama? On whom is thrust this god-appointed honour?" -Rgveda X.52.3 [20:45] will I think it is to serve but then the question is how? [20:45] Also fortunately, we're not a bunch of ancient IE peoples (I enjoy indoor plumbing that usually doesn't smell and clean water that doesn't come from lead-lined aquaducts, thankyouverymuch) [20:45] lol, me too [20:46] Seconded. I prefer living without lice. [20:46] my friend says an urban pagan (which I consider myself to be) as a Pagan who enjoys ritual with access to the flushing toilet [20:47] flushing toilets are a must [20:47] that's how i've come to like my camping too [20:47] An ADF Priest, to me, is someone who has an obligation to ensure that sacrifices are made at the proper times and in the proper way. What's that mean? for one, no vacations, at least not without ensuring that the sacrifices continue. While we acknowledge that our members can establish their own relationships with the Kindreds, Priests can, through their training and dedication, aid members in developing and maintaining those relationships. [20:47] There should have been an "also" before that last sentence [20:48] hmmm, can you explain a but more about the "proper times and proper way"? [20:48] but = bit [20:48] * TwilightPhoenix (RowanRaven@6ca5ecdb.6ca5ec9b.67.233.imsk) Quit (Quit: TwilightPhoenix) [20:49] We're here in full partnership with the Folk. We engage in an open, ghosti relationship with them, generally with an eye toward opening our hand to give. It is always up to them to extend a hand to reach out and receive what we have to offer, and we don't force such things, but we're there if anyone feels they can use what we can offer. [20:51] I like that, my old mentor always used to say "the symbol of ministry (she was a UU minister) should be an open hand" or something like that [20:51] "Proper time" means that no matter what, the fires of ADF's hearth shrines are burning at the times we have made commitments to keep them burning. While our members can get ill and miss a High Day rite, our clergy don't have that luxury: we make sure those fires are lit. . . and when we do so, we do it on behalf of ADF's members as well as ourselves. We don't do ritual for ourselves, we do it for all of us. [20:51] and she meant it in the same way [20:52] <@Blesseddruidess> interesting [20:52] "Proper way" means two things: 1) we do ritual in an ADF manner, and 2) we teach others how to work in that manner as well. It could also be taken to mean that we're doing ritual "right", but I prefer not to place a word of that value on it. [20:53] cool, thanks [20:55] But the clergy do their work because we feel that the benefits go beyond ourselves: the relationships we have with the Kindreds extend to the Folk, and the relationship that the Folk have with the Kindreds extend to us as well. We all benefit from the blessings obtained in the Work: the folk from the clergy and the clergy from the folk. [20:55] * Tanwyn (Tanwyn@aab1e3f.chrlwv.east.36f5c1fe.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [20:55] And the Kindreds from all of us. [20:55] What about groves without clergy and solitaires? How does the clergy reach out to those folks? [20:56] * LeesaKern waves to Tanwyn [20:56] <@Blesseddruidess> We now have these and I am doing online video chat rituals for the solitaires that wish to join it [20:56] hiya [20:56] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello [20:56] I may be interested in that, Blesseddruidess. [20:56] me too [20:57] <@Blesseddruidess> We had our first one at Samhain went good, there was three of us [20:57] I know in Mike's case he is always mentoring, teaching, writing, visiting etc [20:57] I'm not located near any Groves or I wouldn't be solitary :) [20:57] I have watched several videos on YouTube, but is there an "offical" video? [20:57] You'll find that Rev. Kirk Thomas is starting something in the near future, where a member can request a visit from our clergy, and the clergy will actually show up. He's offered to fund that project. It sounds like both Groves (and PG's) and solitary members will be able to request such a visit, though nothing is set in stone. [20:58] There are two videos that the Clergy Council put together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvjfWmh--3M and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDdqAyKml_E [20:58] I have seen some of Kirk's videos... he is a very charismatic man. I really enjoy the way he opens the gates. [20:58] <@Blesseddruidess> It will be a great project! [20:58] when he doesn't fall...hahahhaha [20:58] LOL [20:58] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [20:58] or knock over the bile [20:58] or knock over the tree :) [20:59] breaking things is fun? [20:59] I'll also be putting together a workshop (the outline is at http://chronarchy.livejournal.com/413139.html ) for our Grove, and will open it up to Sols who can make it. [20:59] I know raven is video taping a complete ritual with a professional [20:59] I was asked once why I don't open the gates that way, I know damn well I will fall down [20:59] Additionally, I try and get my workshops up on the ADF site now, in audio format. [21:00] Mike maybe we can video tape them? [21:00] jamie: i usually turn in a slow circle :) [21:00] And *festivals*! I can't begin to describe how important festivals can be for a new member. I should have mentioned that in the "getting started" portion. [21:00] If someone in the grove has a video camera and we have mics etc...and I have an editing program [21:00] I was hoping to attend Desert Magic next year... [21:00] If you can get to a festival, please do. Sols have an open invitation to pull up some space and hang with Three Cranes at any festival you attend. [21:01] Well, in all fairness the festivals can be a *little* overwhelming for the newbie. [21:01] yep come sit with teh cranes and chill [21:01] Yes, JamesDillard, we can tape my workshops with video, if you'd like. [21:01] so, yeah, adopt a grove :) [21:01] <@Blesseddruidess> I can honestly say that attending a festival kept me from walking away, Festivals mean so much, it is hard to say [21:01] Lees; you are quite a bit lighter on your feet than I am. [21:01] we will talk at some point [21:01] Why are they overwhelming? [21:01] Many of us live too far to get to festivals [21:01] that doesn't make me any less clutzy. any faster and i'm toppling right over [21:02] It can be hard to go to a festival when you don't know anyone, especially if you come from far away. [21:02] * AnakinBarrett (AnakinBarr@d138de50.dyn.3daf53dc.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: AnakinBarrett) [21:02] Same goes for Silver Falls (though we are smaller than Three Cranes) anyone is welcome to hang with us -- even if it is just me at the festival :) [21:02] * AnakinBarrett (AnakinBarr@d138de50.dyn.3daf53dc.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:02] someday the cranes will be on tour and we will come to a town near you! [21:02] there are festivals? [21:02] (I joined a grove but it is a 3 1/2 hour drive one way... but this is the West and we drive more out here!) [21:02] But I admit, I'm more than willing to hang with someone very new to ADF for a good chunk of time at a festival. [21:02] I think Three Cranes is the closest grove to me, driving-wise [21:03] <@Blesseddruidess> oh no, welcome at my home any time Cranes and all [21:03] There's a list of festivals here: http://www.adf.org/events/ [21:03] then come see us! [21:03] Ok I will! [21:03] Where are you at Twilight? [21:03] I think it's about 5 hours for me. [21:03] I try to get to as many as possible each year. I make it some more than others. [21:03] Out in the absolute middle of nowhere in southern WV, the coalfields. [21:03] been there... [21:03] Three Cranes is worth the drive of course! [21:04] We have a member in West Virginia, actually. . . Tanwyn :) [21:04] *blush* [21:04] I would love to see something get started in West Virginia [21:04] Very near Blair Mountain if any of you have heard of that. [21:04] :) [21:04] Me too. And Yay Tanwyn! [21:04] is that where the witch is from? [21:04] Jamie... yeah,no. I know my *entire* local community, and it's not happening. I'm perfectly happy as a crane. [21:04] yea! [21:05] And my point with festivals being a little overwhelming, it's really only a little overwhelming and it's mostly becuase it's a lot of people and a lot of information [21:05] Mike what is the one thing everyone should know about adf rituals? [21:05] I'll try to come out to Three Cranes Grove when I can. [21:05] Okay thanks for clarifying [21:05] that would be awesome twilight [21:06] I know there are a couple very small pagan groups near Charleston [21:06] I was involved with one of those, Jamie, at one point. [21:06] We had a nice, impromptu regional meeting at Three Cranes for Samhain [21:07] Don't know anyone near Charleston, but the community in Huntington and the ADF I don't think would mesh well. The people I've talked to here about started a PG just weren't interested once they found out there was actual work involved. [21:07] <@Blesseddruidess> Those in Central Region, there are actually two festivals now, one outside Austin in February and one in Arkansas in May [21:07] You'll run into that, Tanwyn. [21:07] Something about actually serving the public *rolls eyes* [21:07] One thing everyone should know about ADF rituals? At their heart, they can be five minutes long, and done with no tools except a single representation of fire . . . not even a real flame is necessary. . . while at the same time, they can run six hours (been there, done that, was too poor to buy the t-shirt). . . so the ritual style is as flexible as *you* make it. [21:08] Tanwyn, I work in Charleston... perhaps we can network a bit. [21:08] 6 hours! [21:08] 6 hours? Wowie [21:08] baby sumble? [21:08] Wow! [21:08] i can barely hold my attention for a 1.5 hour rite. i can't imagine 6 [21:08] Sacred potty breaks? [21:08] <@Blesseddruidess> that is light, lol, did an 8 hour one back in my past [21:08] Well yeah, I could see a sumble lasting that long [21:09] we shoot for 45 minutes lol [21:09] Yeah. My ass was pretty sore, I admit. I try and avoid the 6-hour ones. . . fortunately, it was only one that I've ever seen. There was a 3-hour Seidr rite at Desert Magic one year. It was actually more uncomfortable. [21:09] especially a 3 round sumble [21:09] <@Blesseddruidess> when the long ones happen, you don't even really realize it, or i didn't [21:09] If your ritual last for more than 5 hours please call your doctor [21:09] you know it at the 3rd round of the high symbl [21:09] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [21:09] (You were there, LeesaKern. . . Wellspring, 2008, I think. We got some shiny new druids out of that bargain) [21:10] small sips [21:10] Or was it 2007? I forget [21:10] yes [21:10] i started in 07 and finished in 08 [21:10] <@Blesseddruidess> 2007 probly as I was there in 2008 [21:10] i would need my ritlan to last that long@ [21:10] Embarassingly, festivals often run together in my head, after nearly 10 years of attending them. [21:10] I am not sure I could hang that long to be honest [21:11] i left during the third round. it had gotten annoying. [21:11] mike, why did you join ADF in the first place? [21:11] <@Blesseddruidess> you really don't feel it, espescially when you have your attention and energy on the ritual and the Kindreds [21:12] even as powerful as the main rite was at the last Wellspring rite (for instance) I thought it was the perfect length [21:12] @Blesseddruidess, if you could get the AR festival to drop a note to adf-webmaster@adf.org about their festival, we can put it on the site. [21:12] <@Blesseddruidess> sure thing, will do that tomorrow [21:13] I joied ADF because the website hooked me: I was looking for something scholarly but not snobby, honest about its past but not rejecting connections to ancient wisdom. I found it here. Well, I found some snobby people, too, but they were a distinct minority. [21:13] Michael, I know your a Discordian as well as a Druid, how do you see the two intermingling ... or do they? [21:14] what is a discordian? [21:14] A discordian is anyone willing to look at windmills and concede that they might be giants. [21:15] They do so less and less in recent memory. I tend to describe it thusly, though: As a Neo-Pagan Druid (always my first and primary path), I am a polytheist. As a Discordian, which is a subset of my polytheistic belief, I am a monotheist ("There is no goddess but goddess, and she is your goddess"). [21:15] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:15] ok:-) [21:16] I just saw the post for the chat, so I just joined. Anyone still here? [21:16] Discordianism is a modern religion centered on the idea that chaos is all that there is, and that disorder and order, the former considered a concept distinct from chaos, are both illusions [21:16] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello [21:16] Hi Sylvane [21:16] Through a hierarchy of belief, I generally think that the monothistic belief fits very readily under the polytheistic umbrella: I can be both just fine, so long as I remain fully polytheistic on the top level. :) [21:17] <@Blesseddruidess> so you are a polytheistic monotheistic? I am confused. [21:17] isn't that henotheism? [21:17] It's not modern. It dates back to 1958 (or maybe 1959. . . no one remembers). That makes it ancient. It venerates bowling alleys, and a Discoridan must give his life to protect a bowling alley from desicration, should anyone ever decide to dessicrate a bowling alley (or figure out how). [21:18] It's okay: we're all confused when it comes to Discoridanism. . . and no one more so than us Discordians. [21:18] There's a reason that we discordians must stick apart. [21:18] I actually think I have dessicrated a bowling alley, in High School, I won't share how though [21:18] Probably for the best, JamesGoodwin. [21:18] shame on you [21:18] hey ... it was fun at the time! [21:19] I'm interested in getting back to ADF, though, honestly :) [21:19] as long as it was worth it! [21:19] That was my stall question though! [21:19] <@Blesseddruidess> yes, do you plan on running for any office on the MG or would you agree to be if nominated? [21:20] FYI, the entire holy book of the Discordians, the Principia Discordia, is available online at http://www.principiadiscordia.com/ if you are interested. [21:20] I will not run for any MG offices this year, regardless of position or who nominates me ;) I have enough work to do with out ever getting a "real" job in ADF. . . Oh, wait, I have one: CC Preceptor. I forgot about that for a moment. [21:21] Still, too much to do to be messing around with an elected position. [21:21] <@Blesseddruidess> you do do alot for ADF and I for one am thankful for it [21:21] I do a few odd jobs, as I mentioned. I'm mostly just happy to help out where I can. [21:21] Mike what was the hardest part about starting a grove? [21:22] Keeping my last SD in line for so long. I tell you, JamesDillard is a cad of a human being. [21:22] I mean. . . [21:22] ha [21:22] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [21:22] haha. [21:22] you ain't seen nothin' yet, mikey :) [21:22] I thought I was a cod [21:22] if there were no obstacles (money, people etc.) what would be a dream project or event you would like to see happen within ADF in say the next 5 years? [21:22] My current SD, LeesaKern is a dream :) [21:23] ha! [21:23] yeah, I would worry about the new SD more than the old one :) [21:23] it's only been a month. give me time [21:23] jamie is a wise wise wise man [21:23] OI wake up screaming [21:23] rofl [21:23] Lees, I keep telling people that [21:23] <@Blesseddruidess> yall are too funny [21:25] Anyway, seriously. The hardest part of forming a Grove was losing my girlfriend over it. I, stupidly, thought that I'd have more time for her if I founded a local Grove, rather than driving an hour each way to do it. Turns out it's sometimes a bit time-intensive. Also, new GO's should be prepared to shell out a large portion of operating expenses from their own pockets for a while. . . but it's good incentive to keep things cheap [21:26] Still, losing the girlfriend led me to the current one, so it's working out at the moment. But I still feel bad about that. [21:26] upgrade! [21:26] was your original GF also a member of ADF ... just curious [21:27] JamesGoodwin asked about the next five years: without obstacles of money and such, I think it'd be awesome to do that "nationally televised stonehenge rite" that Isaac mentions in his original Vision of ADF [21:27] YES! [21:27] oh yeah. [21:27] <@Blesseddruidess> oh yeah [21:27] that would be awesome [21:27] cool [21:27] <@Blesseddruidess> I would find a way even hitch hike to be at that [21:27] ok so first we build stonehenge in the back yard... [21:27] someone ELSE'S back yard [21:27] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [21:28] lol! [21:28] My last girlfriend never joined ADF. My current girlfriend was not a member when we began dating (which conveniently nullified a number of ethical quandries with dating other ADF members) [21:28] What? You don't want a henge to scare trick or treaters with? *grins, ducks and runs* [21:28] @stone circle: that sounds like Kirk's department [21:28] What network would be willing to air it? [21:28] DruidTV [21:29] DTV...I want my Druid TV! [21:29] I was just curious because Rich (my husband) is not in ADF -- not really interested in any religion actually and I actually kind of like it that way [21:29] <@Blesseddruidess> me too Seamus [21:29] Indeed, without a money restriction, we could have our very own television network. See what happens when you turn me lose without a budget? [21:29] I know what happens! [21:30] yeah, but I think it is a good thing to express our dreams [21:30] the voodoo veves in the front yard scare the trick or treaters enough [21:30] Dating people who are not in ADF has clear advantages, not the least being the ethical ones mentioned for a local Grove leader or (in my case) Priest. But it never bothered me that she was not a member of ADF, and I also liked that about our relationship. [21:30] * ADFGuest4400 (ADFGuest44@2585344e.hlrn.de83b96b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:30] hehehe, fair enough [21:31] I think as long as they are open to what you are doing...but your right it is alot of time and money [21:31] it turns out there is at least one person on Earth that I have to talk about something other than ADF with! lol I think it is good for me. [21:31] true that. sometimes it seems Lees and I are stuck in ADF land [21:31] In hindsight, it was far tougher being single in ADF, and I do not want to go back to that. I didn't like it at all, in fact. [21:32] <@Blesseddruidess> Oh yes, I love that Lester comes with me, but not really apart of ADF, but he is, I know confusing [21:32] then treat her right [21:32] @money, it doesn't take long to figure out how to do ritual on the cheap. I think I spent over a 100 dollars just on offerings for our first rite [21:32] yeah that's why early on I started shaking the plate [21:33] stuck in adf land? sitting on the couch in the same house on adf-chat? you LIE :) [21:33] Of course, even with an ADF-affiliated girlfriend, it still causes strife. She's hanging out on the couch downstairs, and I've barely seen her all day. This chat is cutting into time I could have with her, but the advantage of having an ADF-affiliated girlfriend? She understands just how important this is to me. [21:33] I'll be right over [21:33] And yes, I know I spent way, way, WAY too much on altar supplies and sacrifices from my own pocket. It happens. [21:34] But you do learn very quickly. I think that if we were more clear about "build a fire, say pretty words, and pour a ladel of olive oil out," we would find that our Groves didn't cost as much to start up. [21:34] yeah it adds up but they are sacrifices...it's hard to look back on it know it seems so long ago [21:35] now [21:35] @Michael: speaking of money, do you think ADF should encourage more donations and perhaps pledges? [21:35] Indeed, I'm very pleased with what I spent. We have some awesome altar stuff that we use nearly every ritual that I bought. [21:35] agreed [21:36] Yes. Yes, yes, yes. We should definitely encourage donations. Pledges require a drive, though, and collecting, which I'm not so keen on. . . at least, I don't want to do it myself. [21:36] I actually perfer oil to the fire as opposed to some of the fancier offerings I have bought in the past [21:36] But the average donation over the past few years has been about $8 per member per year. [21:37] I really shouldn't be late to an ADF chat after an ADF meeting. I'm totally lost. [21:37] And when I think about how many members we have. . . if every member donated $5/month, ADF would bring in $60,000/year in donations alone. [21:37] <@Blesseddruidess> Hello ADFGuest4400 [21:38] yeah I agree, I know orgs that make a lot of money on pledges but probably half their time is spent on encouraging and promoting the giving of pledges [21:38] Hello. Trying to catch up. sorry. [21:38] <@Blesseddruidess> True true, I also think that more could do booths at Fairs and put part or all of what comes in to ADF one way or another [21:39] For reference, you can donate to ADF on a recurring basis at http://www.adf.org/donations/ and never have to go in and physically click the button again. I donate $5/month through reccurring donations myself (if I am going to mention it to others, I should really do it, I reason). [21:39] Its' not much, but it'll add up. [21:39] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [21:39] And if donations begin to rise, we may see the MG turning some of that money around and perhaps donating part of it back to Groves to help them with ritual supplies and space rental. [21:40] It is, after all, all about reciprocity and ghosti. [21:40] <@Blesseddruidess> have not thought of that [21:40] That is a wonderful idea... [21:40] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:40] sorry guys, we have wireless router problems [21:40] * JamesDillard (JamesDilla@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [21:40] I actually think it should go the other way. We offer 10% of our cash collected (if we collect over 50) back to ADF. That has only happened 3 times in the last year but still ... [21:40] <@Blesseddruidess> np Leesa [21:40] no Lees, Welcome back [21:41] WB Lees [21:41] If you are interested in the budgets, btw, we have them listed on the site: http://www.adf.org/members/org/mg/treasurer/reports/ [21:41] It'll show you how much we actually make in donations and what we spend our money on. [21:42] (the year-end statements are the best place to look for that info) [21:42] * JamesGoodwin is trying to think of more questions and wonders if anyone else has any [21:42] JamesGoodwin, I do think that Groves could also refuse to receive the donation from the MG, or maybe it would only go to PG's to get them started. Who knows? It's just one idea out of many that we could use money like that for. [21:43] hmm, I wonder if a PG start up fund would be succesful? [21:43] Heck, we could actually *pay* people like Anthony for website maintenance. Wouldn't it be novel, to pay our webmaster? :) [21:43] hee hee. [21:43] <@Blesseddruidess> oh yes it would [21:43] * JamesDillard (JamesDilla@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:44] wb [21:44] <@Blesseddruidess> wb [21:44] The Traveling Clergy will need donations to be sustained, as well. While Kirk has offered to pay for the first year or two, it won't support itself. If we want our Sols and PG's to have access to clergy, we'll need to donate to that fund, too. [21:44] wb [21:44] stupid interweb [21:45] <@Blesseddruidess> Oh yes, I agree on that, Kirk can not always be the one paying it [21:46] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (gondor.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [21:46] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) Quit (gondor.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [21:46] * Speedwell (Speedwell@9f02f020.hsd1.nm.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) Quit (gondor.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [21:46] * JamesGoodwin (IceChat7@7378b11b.neo.res.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (gondor.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [21:46] what if he pays the first year and matches donations the second? [21:46] Folk are bouncy tonight, I see. [21:47] <@Blesseddruidess> I know once I get back to work, I will be donating again towards two areas and then general, I give to ADF Cares and prison, then general fund [21:47] That might be a good way to encourage donations. I'll mention it to him (or you can, JamesDillard). I would like to see us do donation drives every once in a while. [21:47] * JamieG103 (IceChat7@7378b11b.neo.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:47] sorcery.net got angry at me [21:47] <@Blesseddruidess> Oh yeah [21:47] * JamieG103 punches the server [21:47] <@Blesseddruidess> I promise I had nothing to do with it [21:47] <@Blesseddruidess> :D [21:48] lol, i know it would have shown me [21:48] I was just typing that... [21:48] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:48] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:48] * Speedwell (Speedwell@9f02f020.hsd1.nm.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:48] did everyone get booted? [21:48] net split [21:48] not everyone, but several [21:48] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [21:48] happens on irc [21:48] i didn't [21:48] <@Blesseddruidess> I must admit, this is one of our largest chats on IRC [21:48] not me...I am just special that way:-) [21:48] <@Blesseddruidess> and a first [21:49] a first what? [21:49] never had a problem on this server before [21:49] I was listening to another podcast and they were doing like a raffle where people donated to be in the raffle and got an autographed something [21:49] <@Blesseddruidess> this many [21:49] that would be neat Seamus [21:49] How long do these last, btw? I ought to get back to the girlfriend at some point :) [21:49] ? Does Blesseddruidess = Lesley? [21:49] <@Blesseddruidess> OOOH I know a raffle to a festival? [21:49] yeah go we can continue to talk without you... [21:49] I'm sure we could come up with something awesome to raffle. [21:50] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:50] * blake-arklatex (blake@10abdd47.131.76.113.Dial1.Dallas1.b1da02e4.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:50] <@Blesseddruidess> Yes, blesseddruidess is me, Lesley and usually 2 hours so about 10 more minutes [21:50] I jsut got booted and had to start again. [21:50] I wanted to touch back on the money issue for local Groves/Protogroves. [21:50] I almost totally forgot about this. [21:50] wb Sylvane, it got a few of us [21:50] go have fun with your girl!!! [21:50] maybe we could do a raffle with every podcast [21:50] hi blake [21:50] hey jamie [21:51] <@Blesseddruidess> Hi Blake [21:51] i would love a raffle [21:51] Just submitted my GO survey at Samhain, and money for offerings for public ritual is at the top of my "think about and make a decision list." [21:51] that would be a good idea Seamus, have Cei and Ian autograph their new books for isntance [21:51] wasn't this the ian corrigan chat? [21:51] a raffle woudld be great [21:51] an autographed copy of ...get out of my head jamie [21:51] <@Blesseddruidess> Before you go MJD, thank you and Kindreds bless! [21:51] it is the MJD chat Blake, but I think Michael is about to go [21:51] I'm positive the two other ADF members who will be part of the Protogrove will contribute, but what happens when you start getting more peope or people who aren't part of the Protogrove? [21:51] oh, ok [21:51] Bye MJD and thank you [21:51] Thanks for chatting with us Michael, tell Maggie I said hello [21:51] <@Blesseddruidess> That chat is in December [21:52] well, good seeing you on here, MJD [21:52] I'll be on a bit longer. Just checking the timing. [21:52] Can we consider it a sacrifice and offering from everyone if everyone hasn't contributed? [21:52] bye micheal itwas wonderful meeting you and getting to talk to you! thank you for the help [21:52] oh ok, yay! [21:52] Yes, I'm afraid that you don't get the awesome Ian, just plain-jane me ;) [21:52] Mike mayne we can get everyone in the grove to sign a copy of our book and donate it [21:52] * KirkThomas (KirkThomas@ac383c5d.dhcp.5a90edde.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [21:52] maybe [21:52] Sylvane, most of the money goes to space. Rentals. at least for us [21:52] Yep, thanks, Michael. This is my first chat session, and I came just because I saw you'd be on! [21:52] <@Blesseddruidess> Hey Kirk! [21:53] Hi Kirk [21:53] hey [21:53] kirk [21:53] well, you help a lot of people, MJD, so you're awesome in your own right. [21:53] Captain [21:53] Hi! I just saw the notice on the lists. [21:53] hey Kirk! [21:53] I just remembered we had a chat tonight [21:53] <@Blesseddruidess> Oh yes you are! [21:53] Yes, Michael is awesome. [21:53] and he's ours! [21:54] He's all of ADF's, actually. [21:54] (grin) [21:54] nope mine mine mine [21:54] <@Blesseddruidess> yeah, what Kirk said [21:54] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [21:54] One of the key things to do to keep the cost of starting a PG down is to do a lot of footwork ahead of time and find 1) cheap or free places to do ritual (that aren't your house, if you can help it) and 2) a cheap supply of silver and oil. [21:54] olive oil? [21:54] I perfer Grape Seed oil actually [21:55] <@Blesseddruidess> Sylvane where are you again, I know I know but can not remember. [21:55] no idea why [21:55] Well, house is out, so finding ritual space is also on my list. [21:55] yeah didn't we find silver in an old necklace at a thift store? [21:55] ok, at least we're not talking about petrochemical products. [21:55] Pensacola. And you've seen me on the lists as Chris Yow. [21:55] <@Blesseddruidess> Ah ok, thanks [21:55] oh, hey Chris [21:55] I was on amazon.com yesterday and did a search in their jewlery section for silver rings. They had several for about $4 each. Silver beads are also good, but get fully silver ones (about $3 at JoAnn fabrics or a Michael's craft store) so that they sink :) [21:55] <@Blesseddruidess> For those that don't know, I am Lesley [21:56] A while back someone mentioned using silver jewelry beads from a craft store. That's what I've been using for home rituals. [21:56] Olive oil is good (I'm getting a fondness for hazelnut oil, but it ain't cheap), and ghee is actually really good, too, unless it's a cold, outdoor rite. [21:56] remember if you can buy oil in bulk, you don't have to pour a whole bottle every time [21:56] floaty silver beads are not good ritual drama [21:56] The ones I get are real silver, and they don't float at all. [21:57] i got a big bottle of Grape Seed Oil and it has lasted for 3 rites and probably will last at least two more [21:57] I sometimes forget that "oil" means "crude" as well as "stuff that raises a sweet smell to the Gods" [21:57] <@Blesseddruidess> Yeah I buy one bottle for six months, but that is my sol rites [21:57] But they would be quite small for public ritual. [21:57] I would like to try different oils... [21:57] you can just throw the floaty ones harder so they click the bottom before floating up :) [21:58] Hazelnut oil is awesome like MJD... and smells really nice! [21:58] ??? Why would silver beads float? Mine never have. [21:58] did someone mention thrift stores for silver? [21:58] cheap ones do sometimes, if they are low silver count [21:58] well silver plated or coated and we found out [21:58] I prefer hazelnut oil myself. [21:58] We have used spirals made out of silver wire... they work really nicely. [21:58] <@Blesseddruidess> Way back when doing group rites, we had silver charms on a necklace that we would cut off for the offering, something made of man and taken out of use for offering [21:58] that is a good idea Speedwell [21:59] One of the things with pouring oil, if you've never done it on a fire: it doesn't take much, but pour slowly. It takes a moment for it to flare up when the oil is poured out, and (speaking theatrically) you want the increase in light to happen as you are pouring. A slow pour will ensure that it flares while you pour [21:59] I performed my first ADF ritual with my coven-mates at Midsummer, and I went a bit overboard with offerings. Now I know how to be a little more thrifty, I hope. [21:59] I like mixing whiskey with oil...the whiskey goes quick and then the oil burns slower [21:59] Do they actually mix? [21:59] shake well before using [21:59] Interesting Seamus [21:59] Ah, silver plated. I guess I lucked out and got good ones. I don't remember spending a whole lot on them. I'll have to remember to go back there for more. [21:59] We used spirals of silver wire for a time, as well. It was pretty cool, and we could make special shapes [21:59] We used Vodka for midsummer, first time I have ever poured spirits on a live fire ... managed to do it with catching on fire ... barely [21:59] <@Blesseddruidess> never thought of that Seamus [22:00] they separate a little [22:00] that's why they call it "firewater" [22:00] add dragon blood and poof [22:00] <@Blesseddruidess> I so got to try it now [22:00] I was literally like, "am I on fire?" and a couple people said "not yet!" [22:00] We often mix dragon's blood and olive oil. Gives it a good, dark red sort of "bloody" look [22:00] Yep that's on my try list now [22:00] <@Blesseddruidess> dragon blood, vodka, and oil [22:01] it was an awesome rite though [22:01] If you want a good blaze, try Everclear. Doused a "Yule Pole" with it for a Yule ritual several years ago, and we got a nice snake of fire up to the top that exploded into a blaze when it hit the dry evergreen branches. Pagan fireworks! [22:01] lol [22:01] Awesome. [22:01] hehehe [22:01] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [22:02] <@Blesseddruidess> MJ any advice to the solitaires out there? [22:02] yeah now I'm trying to get powdered minerals for different colors [22:02] speaking of saving money. I also bought a big bag of "wild animal food" for the nature spirits that worked well [22:02] and has lasted a long time [22:02] Yes, but with Everclear, stand clear. We use it quite often, actually, in ritual. . . but more to bring out the brightness of the deity than as a gift of a drink. I mean, I've been offered everclear before, and I have this notion that it doesn't make much of a gift to most people :) [22:02] One of my high priestess friend's boyfriends has a lot of property in the country and that's really good for ritual [22:02] or to make them bright! [22:03] jamie be careful they may take seed and grow [22:03] bird seeds and bread crumbs are good offerings for land spirits [22:03] Nah, it tastes icky. Makes nice fuel for fire, though. [22:03] Advice to Sols? Do the work in the DP, even if you don't do the documentation at the end. Don't focus on the requirements, just on keeping your hearthshrine's fire lit. That's nearly all the work of ADF, anyway. [22:03] yeah, good point! We do our ritual on a mowed lawn though [22:03] bird seeds can take seed be careful [22:04] you might have weird patterns in your grass [22:04] i have a thing to hang bird seed from [22:04] is at the UU church in their "medicine wheel" [22:04] shh! don't tell them they will never know [22:04] <@Blesseddruidess> do yall use ritual theatrics in your sol ritual? Or does it become more relaxed? Meaning do you use just oil on a candle instead of a fire pit? [22:04] steel-cut oats are a great alternative to bird seed. Plus, it's genearlly cheaper than birdseed, and just as edible/biodegradable. [22:04] Birdseed for offerings can make for a nice fairy ring in the spring! Did that once, too. [22:04] I agree with Mike just do the work...it's a path not a program [22:05] Lesley I perfer using a charcol burner and oils [22:05] like essential oils for home rites [22:05] i have 2 stainless steel offering bowls [22:05] and incense is used as an offering [22:05] smells good, lots of smoke and sometimes an actual (though small and managable) flame [22:05] All ritual has an element of theatre, even if it's only for yourself. The mere act of kindling a fire is deeply theatrical to me, even when that fire is kindled by striking a match and placing it on a candle wick [22:06] Yeah, I use charcoal and either incense or herbs [22:06] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) Quit (rivendell.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [22:06] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) Quit (rivendell.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [22:06] * Speedwell (Speedwell@9f02f020.hsd1.nm.5aa6454b.net.hmsk) Quit (rivendell.hub.sorcery.net ironforge.sorcery.net) [22:06] I have a fire bowl I use outside on my porch that I use, or my fireplace. [22:06] ahh oh [22:06] Depends on the weather! [22:06] sorcery.net is kicking people out again [22:06] yes, I have a small fire bowl I use too in the warmer months [22:06] <@Blesseddruidess> Yeah, I have a feeling that 15 people is pushing it at times [22:07] that is weird though, I have been in IRC chat rooms with hundreds of people in them [22:07] 15 people beats 3 [22:07] I prefer to be outside with the fire bowl but rain/snow or just hearth offerings push me inside to the comfy fire :) [22:07] And, to stress a point: there's nothing *wrong* with theatrics. Theatrics are merely tools we use to get into a ritual mindset. [22:07] in fact, I think Theatrics are essential [22:07] it's not just us it's all of IRC sometimes it re-routes people [22:07] even if it just for seld [22:07] Agreed about theatrics [22:08] Over the past year I've learned a lot about theatrics from doing rituals with Wiccan friends. [22:08] Yes, theatrics do help. [22:08] <@Blesseddruidess> oh no there is nothing wrong in them, I love them and asked because I have started noticing a difference in my personal rites from the times of being in a group [22:08] While it may feel a bit silly to be theatrical in a Sol ritual, it is also very good practice, and you'll be surprised how doing certain actions over and over again brings them deeper and deeper meaning [22:08] the public wiccan rites around here tend to be a bit bland [22:08] agreed [22:08] Wiccans use theatrics to call quarters and we use theatrics to call the three Kindred [22:09] I know no one said there was anything wrong with theatrics. I just wanted to clarify the point :) [22:09] <@Blesseddruidess> I also tell stories or sing even in my personal ones [22:09] I think theatrics have to have a clear ritual purpose, and should not be used only because they're "cool" [22:09] Sometimes, the word "theatrical" can mean "empty" to people, which is like using the word "rhetorical" to mean "irrelevant" (also common) :) [22:09] in fact, I like to do my home rites inside because I feel safer sigining and being theatrical than out in my back yard :) [22:09] The Wiccans I know are Gardnerian and it's very much about theatrics with them. [22:09] I don't consider them theatrics I think of them as visual cues [22:10] er, signing [22:10] Yes, visual cues [22:10] I sing in nearly all my rites, actually. It's rather nice to be able to sing without worrying so much about how I sound. [22:10] you have afine voice [22:10] I like to sing in rites too. [22:10] I believe that song resonates in the cosmos. I always sing, too. [22:11] a single sonic sound [22:11] I'm sure our pagan ancestors sang. [22:11] yup, yup .. I always say at our pre-rite breifings "all voices are beautiful so please share yours with us" [22:11] There's something in the magical quality of music and sound that does much to enhance the entire rite for me personally. [22:11] Good line, that, JamieG103 [22:11] Agreed JamieG103. [22:11] actually that is not true. I say "all voices, like all bodies, are beautiful, so please share yours with ours" and then wait to see if anyone gets it :) [22:12] energy, vibrations, notes and tones, colors there are all there [22:12] <@Blesseddruidess> lol Jamie [22:12] oops they are all there [22:13] I like to sing traditional songs in my hearth culture's native languages, too. That also seems to bring me in a better mindset. [22:13] you know what is so exciting for our Silver Falls rite tomorrw? [22:13] what? [22:13] I get to give up the money, I am so happy to have pursewarden [22:13] Yay for a division of labour! [22:13] Woof! [22:13] <@Blesseddruidess> cool, congrats! [22:13] well, I think the rite will be pretty awesome too [22:13] lol [22:13] * LeesaKern (LeesaKern@32e26d0d.insight.res.14056255.com.hmsk) has joined #ADF [22:13] wb Lees [22:13] or we did [22:13] it's nto a dump,it's a split [22:13] <@Blesseddruidess> Twilight what hearth? [22:14] * Sylvane (Sylvane@2e1ee6c3.pn.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined #ADF [22:14] wb Chris [22:14] <@Blesseddruidess> wb [22:14] I can't tell you how happy I was to finally have competent officers to balance out my own incompetence at running various aspects of 3CG :) We have been quite blessed with good folk [22:14] Insular Celtic/Irish [22:14] hey, i'm back! [22:14] and me [22:14] Welcome back Leesa! [22:14] Hi all! [22:14] nice sucking up, mike [22:14] :) [22:14] wb all who the system kicked out [22:15] most of the little things I don't mind, acually kind of enjoy, but I am so happy to be rid of the money side of things (at least directly) [22:15] especially when we start collecting dues [22:15] MJD, you may have already discussed the Order of the Crane. If not, would you? [22:15] it's ahrd to be senior druid and grove spiritual director we were lucky [22:15] hard [22:16] LeesaKern, you know I'd be lost without you and JamesDillard and all the other folk who have served. 3CG isn't the kind of Grove that gets built on one person ;) [22:16] I can talk a bit about the Order of the Crane [22:16] (OotC [22:16] wow..... what exactly do you want? :D :D :D [22:16] When I read about that, I thought it was going to include Crane-style kung fu, but no, everything's IE. [22:16] First, see: http://www.threecranes.org/order/ [22:16] wax on [22:17] my next belt level talks about crane-style stuff, so it could get added :) [22:17] I have looked at it and I'm quite impressed. How long has this been in the making? [22:17] 6 years? [22:17] * ADFGuest4400 (ADFGuest44@2585344e.hlrn.de83b96b.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: ADFGuest4400) [22:18] Orders are still in the approval process from the MG, but at this time Seamus and I have opened up the Order of the Crane to new members. The Order is specifically designed so that any member of ADF can join, regardless of their "skill" or "advancement" in ADF. All that we care about is that you're willing to put forth effort. [22:18] I found the crane style to be one of the harder for me when I was doing Martial Arts. Much prefered the tiger styles [22:18] found this interesting earlier... google "adf first oath"... the second hit is the Order of the Crane [22:18] 6 years is a good bet, JamesDillard, for symbology and such. But the concept of the Order itself is about three months old at this time, I would guess. [22:18] nice, Tanwyn :) [22:19] yeah I know but our work with teh crane is an ongoing process [22:19] For those of us who are not crayons (Cranes) can you explain how you came to choose the "crane" as the focus of the order? [22:19] i'm guessing the first oath USED to be a requirement for the DP. [22:19] We decided to open it up prior to MG approval of the Order structure to get some working going. There is, after all, no law that says we *can't* do this, so why not get started? [22:19] mike said to :) [22:19] * LeesaKern is totally kidding about that [22:20] but 3 months sounds right...Mike and I started working on this on our own without each other knowing and we stared comparing notes and wow [22:20] The first oath was actually not ever required for the DP. It was put in to help people sort of "get started". [22:20] I'm very interested in joining, but I fear my GO work will hamper my ability to devote time to it. Still finishing the DP, though very near the end of it. [22:20] too late, I already sent the email about MJD forcing eveyone to follow the crane [22:20] * LeesaKern finished her samhain write ups and week 16 of her mental training stuff TODAY! ;) [22:20] congrats! [22:20] We chose the Crane for the Order because we'd developed a strong working relationship with him, and we wanted to invite others to engage in that sort of relationship as well. [22:20] Awesome Leesa. [22:21] * LeesaKern happy crane dances [22:21] then after a few talks and some writing Mike really pulled it together [22:21] is DP 4 or 5 months? I forget [22:21] speaking of the DP, I finished mine a week ago. Can I submit it without sending a printed copy also? [22:21] We fin the Crane to be a transformational figure, and one devoted to service. [22:21] <@Blesseddruidess> emailed the dp back to Carrion yesterday for review, fingures crossed [22:21] agreed,mike [22:21] * AnakinBarrett (AnakinBarr@d138de50.dyn.3daf53dc.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: AnakinBarrett) [22:21] woot [22:21] blake-arklatex, no, I think you still need to submit the paper copy. The ADf Preceptor can tell you for sure, though. [22:22] <@Blesseddruidess> I told you email it to me and I will print it for you and mail it back [22:22] Thanks, MJD, I e-mailed the Preceptor a week ago, but you know the saying: "as fast as a speeding oak". [22:22] lol [22:22] hmmm ... no comment [22:22] Mike worked really hard pulling all of this together and I am excited to see the order really start working [22:22] * JamieG103 is much more of a willow person [22:23] fast and unruly [22:23] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [22:23] hahaha.... i was going with 'limp and weepy' :) [22:23] I have worked with the Heron, and find the symbology very close to what I've read from the website so far about the Crane. Though the heron figure has been feminine for me. [22:23] Indeed. I suspect that you hit some personal issues going on with the Preceptor: this has been a trying time for many ADF members, and Raven, unfortunately, is not an exception. [22:23] which i thought was really mean :) [22:23] Lees! [22:23] Lesley, I'm going to see if I can print it tomorrow at a friend's house. If not, I'll e-mail you. [22:23] sorry, that's what 'willow' means to me! [22:23] heron works... [22:23] that is one of my totems and for me it is the same [22:24] I tend to find that the herons and cranes are very closely symbolically related, even though they're not scientifically related (aside from being non-extinct birds) [22:24] lol, i am sure there are others in ADF that would agree with that assesment [22:24] not the limp part though! [22:24] Maybe 'patience' should be one of the 9 Virtues, LOL! [22:24] i disagree with both of those assessments, jamie [22:24] So, when we in the Order of the Crane talk about "the Crane", you'll find that sometimes, we're talking about cranes, sometimes egrets, and sometimes herons. [22:24] Glad to hear that! We have gorgeous Blue Herons here that, when seen, are just a magical experience. [22:24] <@Blesseddruidess> It is the last one that no one tells you about, lol. [22:25] I suppose it's the 10th Virtue. [22:25] they are wonderful and move so easy -awesome! [22:25] wait, wait, did I read that right that the OotC would be ok with someone using the Heron? [22:25] secret tenth virtue...hahahaha [22:25] And I talk about the Crane as a "he" because "garanus", our improperly declined name for the Crane here locally, is a masculine noun in Gaulish. [22:25] <@Blesseddruidess> Oh yes, I love photographing the cranes and herons around here [22:25] jamie: we kind of merge together "long legged long necked water birds" :) [22:25] But there's no actual "gender" associated with the Crane in reality. [22:26] I found out that there are green herons at lake erie...I am planning a road trip [22:26] hmm... interesting. That changes my whole perspective because I actually have done some work with the Great Blue Heron [22:26] Yep, you read right, Jamie. :) [22:26] Glad to hear that too. My first spiritual contact with the Heron was definitely feminine. I've been trying to track down Crane women in myths. [22:26] let me know when Seamus, I am about 1/2 hour from Lake Erie [22:26] <@Blesseddruidess> I admire the Crane, Heron and all from affar, give me my wolf pack any day though [22:27] yeah I will maybe we can drive up [22:27] I think it's more clear in the OotC book. . . Or, at least, I *meant* to make that more clear :) [22:27] sure.. actually Tredara is like spitting distance from Lake Erie. But that is pretty much closed until Beltaine [22:27] JamieG103, that the form Crane/Heron takes for me. Have had some amazing experiences here on the Gulf Coast. [22:27] <@Blesseddruidess> I admire the work yall are doing with the books and the order! [22:27] I see the three cranes as one male and two females...alwasy have - don't know why [22:28] Writing books is fun. I think I'm starting to do it out of habit now. [22:28] *sighs* [22:28] ha [22:28] <@Blesseddruidess> lol [22:28] heh, you are quite good at it [22:28] you seriously don't know why...... [22:28] <@Blesseddruidess> teach me this habbit of yours [22:28] I would love to see you write a Gaulish book Michael [22:28] At least we have good scholarship in ADF. [22:28] we still ahve to write that druid romance [22:28] <@Blesseddruidess> oh yes [22:28] I have some theories why Lees [22:28] no no no. no druid romances [22:28] I think I won't be able to resist joining OoTC, even if it ads to my ADF plate! [22:29] jamie, are you on my LJ? [22:29] Regretfully, I must be off to bed. This is a fantastic forum -- thank you, everyone. [22:29] I'm actually not the best person in ADF to write a Gaulish book. Dieniol is. [22:29] not sure, I am "dubhlainn" there [22:29] that is not why they are brother and sisters...you two are sick [22:29] do you post often Lees? [22:29] night twilight [22:29] right, right Seamus [22:29] <@Blesseddruidess> Kindreds bless those that have to leave and remember next week Skip on video [22:29] I like that the Order has service requirements. A whole lot! [22:30] I'll be back next week for sure! [22:30] i just posted a conversation with jim that might shed light on this male crane/2 female cranes belief of his [22:30] night twilight [22:30] Good night. [22:30] i'm 'tanrinia' [22:30] * TwilightPhoenix (TwilightPh@1b149187.atw.dyn.4dd1e81a.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit: TwilightPhoenix) [22:30] if I decide to join OotC I will have to take it very slow, but it scares me joining new things because next thing you know I am running to be a leader and everyting [22:31] Seamus and I were specific about the Order needing to do service, either for ADF or for others (and preferably both!) It's vitally important that our subgroups, be they Grove, Guild, SIG, Kin, or now Order, do service and work. Absolutly vital. [22:31] jamie: I just added you. I didn't know who dubhlain was :) [22:31] I would say Groves and Guilds for sure [22:31] the order is about work...it's about doing, hopefully to add a deeper meaning to your other adf work, and your life [22:31] Well, at some point we're going to need to have elections to fill the OotC's leadership seats, but with most of the work done, I don't know how much they'll have to do. [22:31] yeah, it is a ritual name but I don't use it often anymore because no one can pronounce it [22:32] that's the kind of job i want in adf [22:32] DUV-lin....right? [22:32] don't you have it? [22:32] but it is still important to me because I have taken oaths with it [22:32] DOOV or DUV? [22:32] DOVE is closest [22:32] Okay. I've been on chat now for about 2.5 hours. Any last minute questions? I'm fading fast, and dawn comes early. :) [22:32] DOVE Lynn [22:32] see. gaelic. pronoucned just like it's spelled :) [22:33] <@Blesseddruidess> Kindreds bless and thank you! [22:33] thanks again Michael for doing this! [22:33] when are you me and kirk getting a secluded cabiin in the woods again? :) [22:33] thanks for this chat [22:33] I really want to see people writing rituals and working on personal work [22:33] Thanks Michael! [22:33] love ya brother - goodnight! [22:33] All of ADF leadership has been great about joining us for these chats and they have been really great [22:33] <@Blesseddruidess> I can stay on if yall wish to keep chatting [22:33] i'mgoing to get some cookies, but i'll hang for a bit [22:33] <@Blesseddruidess> Yes they have, it is inspiring [22:33] but you have to say the DOVE part like you are angrey at the bird. [22:34] get me some? [22:34] I think service should be integral. I'm hoping that can be at the forefront of our Protogrove here. [22:34] Sleep tight, Michael, and don't forget to review that paper I wrote.... [22:34] Night Michael, thanks. :) [22:34] So I can do the course! [22:34] Kirk - speaking of papers I like the one you sent me...GREAT STUFF! [22:34] That's the one. [22:34] "The Well- [22:35] Trained Ritualist" [22:35] yeah it is really needed and I love that you want to cuss [22:35] http://www.babynamesofireland.com/pages/boy-names-c-d.html if you go to that page and find Dubhlainn and click listen Frank McCourt (who wront Angela's Ashes and 'Tis) says it in some wonderful brouge [22:35] Alright, then: I started with a short prayer, I'll leave with a slightly longer one: [22:35] <@Blesseddruidess> cool [22:35] With all her eyes the Goddess Night looks forth approaching many places: [22:35] She has put all her glories on. [22:35] Immortal, she has filled the waste; the Goddess has filled all height and depth: [22:35] She conquers darkness with her light. [22:35] Good night, folks. [22:36] night [22:36] GN, MJD [22:36] Night. [22:36] 'Night! [22:36] kiss maggie for us [22:36] Night all!